Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by Tonto62, Aug 16, 2019.
Two for the price of one.lol
Sure doesn't help make Firpo look any better.
Firpo did not train much for the fight and was heavier than for Dempsey,but no, he wasn't an early Willie Pep! I don't think Wills looks anything special either.
Got to agree, although I expected what I saw of Firpo, but Wills didn’t look too good.
You have to remember how long Wills had been fighting at this point.
His best wins were probably in 1915, this was 9 years later.
Wills was 32 with 96 fights under his belt
Want to compare that with Charles effort against Marciano when he was 33 a month off 34 with 96 fights ?
Or Moore's fight with Marciano when 38/40, with 176 fights on his clock?
Langford's draw with Wills when Sam was 34 with 184 fights under his belt?
Different fighters have different lengths of prime. Tyson, Dempsey and Marciano are considered great even tho they had relatively short primes. Plus, Wills was getting screwed by the game. He should have already had his shot and instead was continuing to have to prove himself. They even wanted him to fight Tunney not too long after this... as another step to prove he deserved a shot. It is quite possible he burned out a bit early due to these circumstances.
His age wasn't known, there are conflicting ages on multiple documents.
When was his last notable win before this? He didn't have any after this either.
Charles was certainly nearing his end at the top when he fought Rocky too, and Rocky basically finished him.
That’s fair enough, I haven’t seen much of Wills.
Is there much film exists of him?
Charles looks 100% better than Wills in their respective fights which is my point.
Where is the source for Wills age not being known?
Both Box Rec & CBZ have his DOB as 15th May 1898.
After retiring with a broken wrist against Battling Jim Johnson in1917, and apart from a dsq against Bill Tate , whom he had defeated 3 times twice by ko. Wills went 7 years and 50 fights without defeat prior to the Firpo fight .
So where is the evidence of his decline?
I give you figures, you give me theories!
Not other than some even later ones
Charles also lost to Valdes, I'd agree Charles is better, but you have to accept few fighters will be near their peak 9 years after their best win. I'd say his declining quality of opposition and the less complimentary news reports are decent evidence.
There are sites online you can find records, his grave stone for example gives a different age to his marrige certificate. There are too many common details on the records for them to be different people.
Klompton looked, probably more thoroughly, and came to the same conclusion. It was discussed in another thread, I can link it if you're interested.
Yes, and he doesn't look good in any of them. I'm pretty sure we saw Wills vs Madden here, and Wills at age 32 looks just okay. You can also see him at end of his career getting KO'd by Uzcudun,