Wing Chun

Wow.

This conversation is over.

 

You sound very very angry indeed. Anyway enjoy your monologue, have a nice day :hi:

 

For the record takedowns onto asphalt or concrete are even better than in a ring. I ended up with a scar on my knee, he ended up getting his head slammed on the sidewalk; I'll take that.

It's a fight, your likely going to get a little damage; I will gladly take a knee scrape for the opportunity to be able to land headbutts with concrete under the bad guys head. Non trained people will let you posture up, they will try to grab your wrists. It not like I couldn't have stood up either, most people in the street don't have a black belt level closed guard. Even a decent BJJ guy can get stacked and just have the guy on top walk out.

If I was more confident in my throws, I could have knocked him cold with just the takedown.

But again; there are two types of "real" fights being talked about.

A engagement with an enemy combatant in a war zone is not the same as a street fight; the reasons why are too long to list.

 

I am not speaking from a position of any expertise...

but I always assumed that Judo would be very useful in a street situation.

Unlike in MMA, people in the street wear clothes to grab onto.

One good throw into the asphalt (quite different from the soft gym mat, as Beebs has pointed out), and I'd imagine your attacker would be winded enough for you to make a get away.

In the street it's not about KO'ing an attacker. It's about getting away as unscathed as possible.

 

Beebs, thanks for the posts. I stopped at about page 5, but I'm going to catch up tomorrow.

Martial arts history is fascinating.

 

There is only one occasion were lee talks of having a real fight.He was stunned at how hard it was to defeat a real opponent. How long it took to win a fight and how much BS he had been taught. FACT Whether you like it or not!

 

Re: Throws in combat.

In our old dojo we always said that "nothing hits you harder than the ground" and that **** is true too. If you've ever landed on your head playing football or in training you know what I'm talking about. Landing on one's head ****s you up - takes your senses away. The average person on the street has no idea how to break their fall without even breaking their arms much less lessening the impact of the fall.

 

I agree that you can use the hard surface to your advantage. But this is only true if you are better than the person you are fighting. What if the bad guy is better than you and use the hard ground to smash your head on instead, surely the conrete wont benefit you in anyway, it benefit him.

Its like saying I like to fight in water because I can swim, sure a person can swim is most likely to win the fight than the person who strugle to swim. What if the bad guy is a better swimmer than you are? That is something you wouldnt know until the fight is over.

I know someone been doing MMA and though he could take anyone down on the street in any situation. Until he got his ass handed to him by the better man on the street. Obviously he has got the wrong mentality.

I tend to avoid discussion like these as it has a habbit of turning nasty, but I read many of your post and I enjoy them.

 

@ "Sure it's best to win by using your greater fighting skill, but what happens when you get into a fight with a better fighter" as if that doesn't apply to every MA.

 

This cat deviates from the subject and the topic so much I dunno how he can even communicate. I dunno if it's ADHD or what.

I'm certain he's gona start bringing machinery into it quite soon. Questions: "What is the effectiveness of different MA's in a street fight?". Chris96: "What if they have a tank?! Your grappling is useless! I've been stabbed before so you're wrong and I'm right." :roll:

 

Jesus christ dude. Get a grip.

As for the Dempsey combat manual, I've looked through it before and it seems like maybe a lot of that stuff was taught to him the day before the photo shoot so that he could be the guy in the manual and make it more popular with the soldiers. Dempsey had done plenty of street fighting and I'm sure knew all sorts of dirty tricks, but a lot of those are clear judo/sub holds.

Anyway, this has to be about the thousandth thread like this I've seen and they all come down to HOW YOU TRAIN. I'd pick amateur boxers over kung fu guys 95% of the time for no other reason than the fact that 100% of amateur boxers spar hard and open regularly and very few kung fu places do. Same with TKD. If you're at a place that teaches "traditional animal style kung fu" and you spar all the time and train hard and actually know how to hit a moving target that's firing back, you're fine. My brother in law does all sorts of kung fu stuff and is really into all that chi garbage, but he also spars and grapples and works really hard at his gym and gets beat up and bruised and injured all the time. When he's needed to use his stuff in a "real" fight, he's done very well for himself. If TKD tournaments had less padding and didn't go on points and the point was to hurt the guy until he couldn't fight, TKD would be a lot more well regarded as a good MA for street fighting than it is now. Of course, then it would be a lot less lucritive and have a lot fewer kids doing it. So, basically, it would be kickboxing or Thai boxing or some such thing. If there's some people out there who really go the whole hog with wing chun and spar all the time, I'm sure they can do well on the street. Whether or not they will beat up someone who has done boxing or kickboxing or whatever has a lot to do with athleticism and time spent and a lot less to do with the "style".

One thing everyone needs to man up and admit though is that if the mma craze has showed nothing else, it has shown that large body movements against large parts of your opponents body (moving your whole body against their legs or torso for a takedown or throw for example) are a lot more high percentage than strikes with small parts of your body against small and mobile parts of your opponent (punches or eye jabs against a moving head). If you're going to be good at just one thing and you're going to hope that it can get you out of a fight, it's better to have it be getting close and throwing them to the ground. It's been shown over and over again that even very skilled strikers can't drop guys that are good wrestlers before they get taken down and then they're screwed. If you can end it on the feet with punches and kicks and eye jabs then good for you. But it's a lot easier for an unskilled person to avoid getting punched even by a good puncher than it is for an unskilled person to avoid getting taken down or thrown by a skilled person.

 

That makes sense especially after everything you said prior to that .

 

Well thank you, but I'm not sure I understand. The "it only works that way if you're better than the other guy" idea applies to everything; if I stand and box it is only going to work if the other guy isn't a better boxer.

 

Whoops. I meant to say it's a lot EASIER. Time for an edit...