Winky Wright vs. Joe Calzaghe -- better career & resumé?

Discussion in 'World Boxing Forum' started by Combinaçion, May 19, 2009.


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  1. Combinaçion

    Combinaçion Active Member Full Member

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    Winky may be past it now.... he's had a long lay-off of almost 2 years (that was his first fight since B-Hop in summer 2007), and has had some highly counter-productive lay-offs between that too since no-one wanted to fight him. The fact that he took a fighter like Paul Williams, given Winky's age & stretch of inactivity, has to be HIGHLY respected (this cannot be understated given the number of people avoiding Paul Williams). Now look at it this way-- Williams is the ONLY fighter to decisively lay a whooping on Winky.


    Taylor 'comparable' to Kessler. lol.
    Kessler has only had one fight against another genuine world champion (Calzaghe!). Taylor had just come off of back2back wins over Hopkins (which you could argue were the 2 biggest back2back victories of the last 2 decade: t5, yes.. t3 possibly...t1 i suppose you could argue it... given the stature of Hopkins, then!)... Kessler had fought NO-ONE before (not even the Andrade, the only other 'good' name on his resumé which came AFTER Calzaghe.. and he refuses to re-match him outside Denmark!<-- classic European Champion mistake).



    The simple-fact is... Back2Back wins over Mosley > Calzaghe's 2 biggest wins (Hopkins & Kessler-- he called it his biggest win pre-Hopkins!).

    Tito victory + the win (though not the decision) against undefeated Taylor (who had just come off of the back2back wins over Hopkins) are greater than anything else on Calzaghe's record.

    Hell, his close decision-loss (which many see as a win) vs. Vargas.. is bigger than Calzaghe beating a SHOT version of the already past-it Roy (there's past-it post-Ruiz Roy... and then there's truly SHOT Roy after Glen Johnson -- the Roy who couldn't even put a much smaller, past-it Tito away!!!!).

    Calling the Roy that Calzaghe beat 'shot' is an understatement. He was 1 level below that!
     
    Combinaçion, May 20, 2009
    Combinaçion, May 20, 2009
    #46
  2. WelshintheUS

    WelshintheUS Active Member Full Member

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    This thread is totally lopsided with Calzaghe haters as per usual.
    I really like and admire Winky but some much needed perspective is needed here.

    Felix Trinidad has always been overrated and Winky beat him 4 years after Hopkins dismantled him and two years after he retired.
    The same shot Roy Jones beat Tito in the fight before Calzaghe outclassed Jones
    Add to that the fact that he was gifted a win against ODH and all you have left is a decision over a 35 year old Sweet Pea.

    Winky lost to Vargas who was also massively overrated.

    Hopkins beat Winky then in his next fight lost to Joe quite clearly, before going on to dominate Pavlik.
    Winky deserves mad props for beating Shane twice fair play, but I always preferred Shane at Welter.
     
    WelshintheUS, May 20, 2009
    WelshintheUS, May 20, 2009
    #47
  3. MAG1965

    MAG1965 Loyal Member banned

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    Exactly. Although Calzaghe still had a very good resume. Many people disregard his wins over Hopkins and Jones, but not many people still can beat older versions of Bernard and Roy -and Joe did.
     
    MAG1965, May 21, 2009
    MAG1965, May 21, 2009
    #48
  4. Govanmauler

    Govanmauler Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Thats how I see it , I respect Winky a lot but he tended to lose to the very best

    Tito was way past it when Winky got him ( and to be honest , if you take Titos power away , which Winkys excellent defence did , he was shown to be a bit of a one trick pony )

    Sugar Shane was still bloody good , but not peak

    Hopkins handled him with ease

    Lost to Vargas , who was good but not amazing

    A quality fighter who probably did fight more truly great names , but he lost to too many of them.
     
    Govanmauler, May 21, 2009
    Govanmauler, May 21, 2009
    #49
  5. beecho1988

    beecho1988 Well-Known Member Full Member

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    Wright, but only just
     
    beecho1988, May 21, 2009
    beecho1988, May 21, 2009
    #50
  6. Flea Man

    Flea Man มวยสากล Full Member

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    Would be like Calzaghe being outclassed by Adamek or Valuev. Winky was way out of his depth at LHW.


    If Calzaghe takes two years off from now, and comes back without a tune-up and takes on someone of the calibre of Williams (awkward, massive for the weight, consistent volume puncher with fast hands and an iron chin, well, pretty much HIMSELF lol) then he would lose in a similar fashion IMO.

    Again, I'm a fan of Joe's, not a hater. I'm just not blinded by hius nutsuck hanging in front of my eyes.
     
    Flea Man, May 21, 2009
    Flea Man, May 21, 2009
    #51
  7. ramalinga

    ramalinga Well-Known Member Full Member

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    Overhyped frauds get beaten and exposed at some point. A fighter who fights regularly until age 37 and has, on his worst nights, scored close wins, can hardly be a fraud. You call Lacy overhyped, but who exposed the hype? Calzaghe schooled him, outclassed him and since that schooling, Lacy was never the same. Calzaghe losing to B - hop? I like Hopkins, but after a good start in the first four rounds, he just couldn't keep up with Calzaghe's pace and faked non - existing low blows to steal time. Robbery is a term fitting if one figher dominates and then loses. it was a close ugly fight, but Calzaghe won clearly despite Hopkins' cheap tricks.

    But than, maybe your use of language does reflect your IQ and it's useless trying to agrue with you on the basis of reason....
     
    ramalinga, May 21, 2009
    ramalinga, May 21, 2009
    #52
  8. Mendoza

    Mendoza Hrgovic = Next Heavyweight champion of the world. banned Full Member

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    Pretty close. I think much might swing on how Kessler does with the rest of his career.

    Clazaghe beat better legands in former #1 pound for pound guys in Bernard Hopkins and Roy Jones. Though older Hopkins clearly had something left as he whipped Pavlik with ease.

    I would say Clazaghe had a better reusme by a small margin.
     
    Mendoza, May 21, 2009
    Mendoza, May 21, 2009
    #53
  9. DINAMITA

    DINAMITA Guest

    I may as well paste this in since it is more relevant to this thread than the one I actually posted it in:

     
    DINAMITA, May 21, 2009
    DINAMITA, May 21, 2009
    #54
  10. Combinaçion

    Combinaçion Active Member Full Member

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    The Roy Jones victory is not even mention-worthy. Jones was not 'excellent' (as in his prime), he was not 'good' either. He cannot beat any champion @ 168 or 175 right now & hasn't been able to Post-Ruiz (Clinton Woods he could beat... but Clinton Woods is sloppy & a joke of a champion!).



    ---

    & like from your other thread, Dinamita, i might as well copy/paste my reply:


     
    Combinaçion, May 21, 2009
    Combinaçion, May 21, 2009
    #55
  11. WelshintheUS

    WelshintheUS Active Member Full Member

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    Does anybody care to counter the statements that I made on this?
     
    WelshintheUS, May 21, 2009
    WelshintheUS, May 21, 2009
    #56
  12. DINAMITA

    DINAMITA Guest

    I repeat:

    The more I think about it the less I understand why I placed Calzaghe ahead of Winky. I mean, I didn't even score the Hopkins fight for Joe. Take that "win" away, and you're left with not much of anything. A great win over Kessler, longevity/consistency, unifying a division (though I'm not sure taking a decade to do it is all that great), and two-weight success (dubious). Wright was a unified champ at lmw, and he beat Taylor for the mw titles IMO. His resume is better even without Vargas and Taylor, his two wins over Mosley alone easily top anything on Joe's resume including Kessler.
     
    DINAMITA, May 21, 2009
    DINAMITA, May 21, 2009
    #57
  13. Brit Sillynanny

    Brit Sillynanny Cold Hard Truth Full Member

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    It might be easier to figure out where you place Kessler and Ottke. Then put Joe one spot above them.
     
    Brit Sillynanny, May 21, 2009
    Brit Sillynanny, May 21, 2009
    #58
  14. El Cepillo

    El Cepillo Baddest Man on the Planet Full Member

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    I scored the fight for B-Hop, but I think Calzaghe deserves a lot of credit for earning the 'w' over Hopkins, which is something most fighter were never able to do. And still can't. The Jones win is pretty meaningless though.
     
    El Cepillo, May 21, 2009
    El Cepillo, May 21, 2009
    #59
  15. Combinaçion

    Combinaçion Active Member Full Member

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    This turned out to be a good & productive thread.


    also, I saw that clip of Bernard on the Fight Network & I tend to agree with him though not quite as emphatically (about Joe pulling off the greatest con in the history of boxing).

    The way you truly realize this is by looking at what Joe did post-Eubank (and an aging Eubank at that!).

    -He's a guy who took over 9 and a half years of his over a decade long reign as champion to unify the belts in his division.

    -Who did he even fight after Eubank that was notable as a great fighter of the moment?
    No-one.

    >Lacy was a prospect & everyone agrees he truly was given too much hype.
    >Bika has never been a true world champion under any of the major alphabet organizations. IBO is the best he'd done.

    so between Eubank & Kessler... he fought no-one genuinely great?
    He fought no-one near t10 p4p until B-Hop (and an old, B-Hop who he didn't DECISIVELY beat... just outworked at times... but still wasn't decisive. A close fight like that always warrants a re-match, esp. when a split-D, yet he refused to give it & went on to fight a Roy Jones who he had previously called PAST-IT & washed up!!!!)

    Hell, he fought no-one t20 or even t30... ****, who knows.. if we listed everyone.. perhaps Kessler wouldn't have even made t40 or t50 p4p when Joe fought him [[long live the little men of boxing!!]]


    It's true, his claim to greatness lies solely on one thing: he's never actually lost.

    That is all.

    a weak case... when stacked up vs. all Winky had done.

    & it's a joke for anyone to suggest that Calzaghe should be higher ranked as an ATG than Bernard... which I've seen his fans do. It's a disgrace to the thinking mind.
    ((and this is a serious case of madness when you remember that while Bernard doesn't get named excessively as one of the best of his generation like DLH, Floyd or Pacman -- he damn well is!))
     
    Combinaçion, Aug 6, 2009
    Combinaçion, Aug 6, 2009
    #60
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