Wins & Performances at 39+ years old : Where does Beterbievs rank?

With some of these you need to look at what the narattive was before the fights, before - sometimes at least - revisionist history occurs.

Whilst some of us on the board were saying that Usyk was a nightmare style match up for Joshua, the prevailing wisdom before the 1st fight was that Usyk was too small, puny cruiser, struggle with Chisora, AJ will walk through him etc etc (Arguably there are some similarities here as many of the Beterbiev fans were saying that Bivol was easy work, midround stoppage, early destruction etc etc).

The difference between Usyk v AJ 1 and Usyk v AJ 2 was night and day in terms of prevailing wisdom on who was going to win, but IMO the win in the 2nd fight was the better Usyk win AND performance, as Joshua boxed as well as I've ever seen him box in that fight.

Similarly - at least up until the Ngannou debacle - not many were giving Usyk much chance against Fury (the H2H monster etc etc). Even after the SECOND Uysk v Joshua fight, the common wisdom was that Fury was a step too far for Usyk.

I give MASSIVE credit to Beterbiev for beating Bivol - although I had Beterbiev with late TKO as my prediction, but the result and manner of the fight did not surprise me, and that was as much how high I rate Bivol as anything to do with Artur.

But a 37 year old Usyk clearly beating - and being a bawhair from stopping - a Fury that looked as good as he had since Wilder II (and possibly before) was IMO a better achievement and result that Beterbiev v Bivol.

However, if Beterbiev was to go up to cruiser and beat Zurdo or god forbid Opetatia, then THAT would be up there with Usyk again, although Usyk doing Undisputed x2, is hard for Artur to even get close to IMO.

We also have to see what is left in these amazing warriors career - NEITHER is done yet, and whilst both probably should be looking at retiring, neither seem to have alluded to it happening very soon!

 

So it's all about our expectations before the fight ? Just because some casuals were saying that AJ was "too big, too strong" it means beating him was huge ?

Usyk is great, there is nobody that would say otherwise, but his hype is just to much for his resume at HW. nothing more...

 

Be honest, if 40 years old Beterbiev lose close fight with this Usyk at CW, would you give him the credit ? that he "dared to be great" ?

 

Hell yes! 175>Cruiser is a huge jump. That said, it's not as big IMO as Cruiser to heavy IMO, and in an apples v apples comparsion that matters.

But for avoidance of doubt, if Beterbiev decided to go up, challenge and beat Opetaia, I would rate that as a better win than ANYTHING Usyk has on his resume. He would get MAD PROPS from me for even attempting it!

In terms of the other point perception and revisionist history does play into things at all times, plus there is a body of work to bear in mind as well since you mentioned resume:-

Let's say for arguments sake, that Usyk's best win is prime Breidis (clear but competetive decision), and Beterbiev's is Gvodzyk (clear stoppage)

Their respective best wins after that run as follows:-

1. Bivol (split controversial decision) vs Fury (clear decision, close to stoppage) - Advantage Usyk IMO, although given how high I rate Bivol it's closer than others might have it
2. Callum Smith? vs Joshua 1 - let's be generous and call this evens, although I think the perception for many after the Joshua fight is Usyk proved to many doubters that he was the real deal.
3. Yarde? Browne? Deines, Callum Johnson? vs Joshua 2, Dubois, Chisora, Gassiev, Huck, Hunter, Bellew?

Once you get past Beterbiev's wins vs Gvodzyk, and just past Bivol (which arguably could have been a loss or a draw it was THAT close), the quality on his resume drops off massively and he simply doesn't have the depth that Usyk does.

I've just assumed that because so many have seen Fury as a mythical H2H heavyweight nightmare, that Uysk's win v him would be valued higher than Beterbievs win vs Bivol.

 

Thank you.

And if he beats Usyk ?

 

Of course, I feel that's a given - but that's contingent on many things coming together that I feel are highly unlikely.

FWIW, if Usyk was to come down to cruiser from HW, I'd have him as very slight favourite to beat Opetaia (depnding on how he looks against Fury in December)

But Opetaia is a fight that I could see Usyk (and Beterbiev!) getting 'old overnight' in, as Opetaia is young, fast, hits hard and has proven he can overcome adversity twice against a still-dangerous-but-post-prime Breidis.

Personally, I very much doubt that Usyk comes back down to cruiser, it would seem like a step back in his legacy to me.

 

Of course.

Let's just assume, that Beterbiev moves up, beats winner of Zurdo vs Billam Smith and is ready for Usyk.


I just watched his latest interview and he said that he will continue boxing soon and there are more options to move up then in LHW.

 

P4P I feel even this faded Usyk is better than Bivol; he has more facets to his game, he can adapt MUCH better and he is physically stronger and with better conditioning.

Add to that his size and power advantage over Beterbiev, and I struggle to see anything other than a wide Usyk UD, or posibly even late stoppage, though Artur is teak-tough and wouldn't bet against him seeing the final bell.

I had Beterbiev vs Bivol as a draw, and that is a against a superior technician who was smaller, didn't hit as hard and was not as physical. Artur gives up a LOT of the strengths he had vs Bivol in the fight with Usyk, whilst Usyk arguably retains the same strengths that Bivol had.

Usyk would be huge favourite for me now, and an even bigger one at his peak in Crusier (Breidis/Gassiev).

Next year could be interesting though, Artur does not seem to be aging the way others do, and maybe a 41 year old Artur vs 29 Usyk has more in the tank and manages to pull it off. I see that as fantasy-land though, and would arguably eclipse Foremans win over Moorer in my book.

I think we need to see what happens in the Beterbiev / Bivol rematch before anything else though; I don't think the result of that is a forgone conclusion, though I would have Beterbiev as favourite given how well he finished

 

I think he will be always favorite and it's fair, considering weight difference.

 

Moore v Durelle.

I know it wasn't one of Kirk's criteria for ranking them, but you have to factor in when it took place. To perform at the level that Moore did in 1958 at nearly 45 years of age after over 200 fights is beyond extraordinary.

To perform at Moore's level today would still be incredibly impressive, but to do it back then when knowledge of training, diet, sports science, etc, was less than it is now is truly remarkable.

To be honest, none of the others come close, in my opinion.