Witch fighter gets the most overrated on this forum?

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by Greb & Papke 707, Sep 26, 2020.


  1. JohnThomas1

    JohnThomas1 Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    I was actually serious when i quoted you in this thread. I absolutely mentioned to you Baer was aided by his size and it seems you picked this out in your comment.

    Were you referring to our debate?!?!?!?!?!?!??!
     
  2. salsanchezfan

    salsanchezfan Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Most of the icons. Dempsey, Marciano, Jack Johnson, even Duran. Through time they've become symbols rather than fighters, and that's when things start going off the rails. Very hard to see past the idol worship, and if you DO have the temerity to suggest these people weren't infallible you're slagged off as some hipster revisionist who just wants to look different.
     
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  3. George Crowcroft

    George Crowcroft 'Snarky Little Gobshite' - IntentionalButt Full Member

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    Wilde is a top 15 P4P staple IMO, but that doesn't mean he beats everyone who ever fought a Flyweight. There's quite a few guys that I'd pick over him, whereas many others think he's invincible.

    You do a lot of the overrating. :lol: Jofre was good, but it's not set in stone that he's the number one BW ever, like is often claimed. He'd wouldn't ever be favoured to beat Harada IMO, and Olivares gives him a big run for his money when it comes to rankings. Most pick him to beat Gomez too, which I find quite strange.

    Pintor beat him. And he wasn't better than Olivares like I've seen some say. I've also seen guys put him at top five in their bantamweight lists, which I find, again, quite strange.
     
  4. Mike Cannon

    Mike Cannon Active Member Full Member

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    Think it has to do with the posters age, I was in my early 20s around the time of 4 and have such fond memories of thier exploits. make sense yes ?
     
  5. ChrisJS

    ChrisJS Well-Known Member Full Member

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    Harada himself doesn’t believe he won the first fight (as most Japanese at the time and even today and this is from a lot of research and direct communication) with Jofre and claims Jofre is the best ever bantam. That’s a solid reference point. There’s a great chance a not as weight drained Jofre with better activity than one fight in 2 years is favored over an Harada beaten by Rose, KO’d by Medel etc; Olivares was KO’d and beaten up badly by Rafael Herrera then clearly defeated in a rematch at a weight favoring him. That has to factor in too.

    Gomez was life and death with Pintor moving up in weight, it’s not crazy to think Jofre, who wouldn’t be weight drained at 122, could beat him. If Yum can drop him hard, Holmes can buzz him etc; a peak Jofre with his power, but also durability and stamina has a great shot.

    Zarate-Pintor was a total robbery in the opinions of roughly 90% of fans. There’s a reason that many feel Zarate, who was a little on the downside, won.
     
  6. George Crowcroft

    George Crowcroft 'Snarky Little Gobshite' - IntentionalButt Full Member

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    But it's not a solid reference point. Harada clearly did win the first fight, he's just being humble. Overly so. And I doubt that any Jofre KOs the Harada who beat him. I don't think the Herrera rematch was a clear win. Regardless, it wouldn't factor in anywhere near as much as Ruben's much better résumé. Especially not when Jofre lost as well.

    If Yum can drop him, and Pintor can go life and death with him, the surely Zarate would destroy him.... you'll have to do better than that Chris. Also, Holmes buzzed him? All I saw was Holmes was getting his ass kicked.

    It wasn't a robbery. That stat is clearly hyperbole and Zarate wasn't on the downside by much. At all. It's barely noticeable, if at all.
     
  7. ChrisJS

    ChrisJS Well-Known Member Full Member

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    You think Harada won clearly, but many people, including a lot of Japanese at the fight and in the press, felt Jofre won. This is documented and it can’t be dismissed. It was a very, very close fight and it wasn’t at Jofre’s best moment. There’s a bit of a difference between losing a close split decision to Harada than being blasted by Herrera.

    Regarding Zarate, you don’t believe it was a robbery, but there’s a reason it’s widely regarded as such and it’s incredibly rare to fight anyone who had Pintor up. It’s like I felt Holyfield beat Moorer in fight I but it’s a perfectly accepted result and I realize I am in the minority there.

    Holmes very briefly buzzed Gomez early in the fight. Gomez recovered quickly. The point being that Jofre, who’d have benefitted greatly from having 122 wouldn’t be in over his head against Gomez when you consider an ancient Jofre did so well as a featherweight, much better than a youthful Gomez did at featherweight for example. While I don’t particularly like (or care to discuss in detail) mythical matches, it’s conceivable that Jofre, with his patience, brilliant counter punching, resilience can take advantage of Gomez’s aggression.
     
  8. ecto55

    ecto55 Rural Australia Full Member

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    Absolutely, and in fact I can sympathize, we are all guilty of it.
     
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  9. Clinton

    Clinton Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Naseem Hamed. End thread
     
  10. Jimmy Elders

    Jimmy Elders Hunter biden injects meth in his groin banned Full Member

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    I find Ali and Louis terribly overrated on this forum some of their fans think they are invincible
     
  11. Johnny_B

    Johnny_B Well-Known Member Full Member

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    Ali by a country mile.
    Then come the likes of: Louis, Holyfield, Marciano, Johnson.
     
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  12. 70sFan865

    70sFan865 Ii6 Full Member

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    No, it's not about your comment. This argument is very often used in Baer discussions. I mean, sure he wasn't small and it definitely helped him but he wasn't that big either and fought many bigger fighters than himself (and he beat them all basically).
     
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  13. KasimirKid

    KasimirKid Active Member Full Member

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    I've always thought Walker was terribly underrated on this forum. He is rarely included in ATG discussion except in passing. Rarely much discussion that I can recall.
     
  14. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    Well, all I can say about that, really, is that you've only been here two years - I've seen him very regularly over the past decade plus, most recently in Rumsfeld's project where he was nominated in two different weight classes and p4p.
     
  15. Flash24

    Flash24 Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Mayweather Jr. At welterweight.
    Wilder, Joshua, and Fury. Triple G. Especially Lomacheko of the new school.
    Greb, Walker, Johnson, Dempsey, Fitzsimmons of the old school.
    G.Mccllean is talked up quite a bit. But who did he actually beat that was very good and prime?
    His best wins were a well past their best Jackson and Mugabi. Both fighters were at least 5yrs beyond their primes.
    I Think the underrated M.McCallum's ko of Jackson is far more impressive that what Mccellean did. Jackson was prime and at his devastating best when McCallum stopped him.