With All Of This Advancement In Training/Nutrition......

Discussion in 'Boxing Training' started by Levook, Jun 1, 2021.

  1. Levook

    Levook New Member Full Member

    Aug 26, 2020
    And all of the supposedly greater fighters we have have nowadays because of supposed wide-spread PED usage, can anyone show me some sort of explosion in ability amongst boxers on film?
    Ph33rknot likes this.
  2. bandeedo

    bandeedo Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

    Feb 19, 2007
  3. Saintpat

    Saintpat Boxing Junkie Full Member

    Jun 26, 2009
    Ray Robinson ate steak and drank the cow’s blood. He turned out OK.

    Emmanuel Steward, one of the greatest trainers of all time, talked about prefight meals once and said if a guy is comfortable with McDonald’s, let him eat McDonald’s. Don’t make him eat things he’s not comfortable with, it can throw off his digestion. The important thing is that he be comfortable.

    There are certain ways to eat to gain or lose weight, but the general ‘eat this type diet’ stuff for energy and performance is so marginal as to not make a significant difference. What matters is if the fighter is comfortable with it.

    I was a competitive swimmer coming up. There was a period where bee pollen was all the rage — you took a capsule a few hours before your race. It was all placebo.

    Now PEDs have proven impact on strength, healing and other things that lead to performance improvement. Which is why they’re banned. But the cheaters are generally a few steps ahead of the testers. You have to be pretty stupid to get caught these days — if you take what Billy at the gym gives you and he swears it won’t be detected, you’re an idiot.
  4. Dementia Pugulistica

    Dementia Pugulistica Active Member Full Member

    Nov 24, 2005
    " Evolution doe! " some would say. This is a great video that touches on your point. A lot of boxing "fans" suffer from recency bias, others, nostalgia bias.

  5. WhataRock

    WhataRock Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

    Jul 29, 2004
    Modern diet is trash.
  6. SmackDaBum

    SmackDaBum TKO7 Full Member

    Nov 22, 2014
    That guys explanation is garbage when it comes to sport Evolution with its ever changing physical attribute optimaization profiles for the athletes to have. Different athletes equal different attribute.
  7. shadow111

    shadow111 Boxing Junkie Full Member

    Aug 1, 2012
    What offsets it is the amount of technological and social distractions these days that make it harder for fighters to dedicate themself fully to the sport and immerse themself in the gym. In the old days, it was a much simpler time, there were less decisions to make on a daily basis so it was easier for the average fighter to focus and stick to a daily regimen and to maintain a training routine day in day out.

    Look at Fury, he has to announce that he's completely getting off social media for the next 8 weeks, so he can dedicate himself completely to training for the next 8 weeks. Because he knows if he doesn't do that, he'll be distracted and won't be able to train hard enough so he can be at his best. But imagine if Fury was put in the 1970s or something. He wouldn't be distracted by social media and all this other stuff of the modern age that takes him away from training constantly so he wouldn't be falling out of shape in between fights like he is in this era.
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  8. Aussie Invader

    Aussie Invader Boxing Addict Full Member

    Jan 5, 2017
    fury falling out of shape in between fights has/had everything to do with a lack of discipline. plus you need to make cardio an integral part of your lifestyle (just like healthy eating).
    i've never taken my phone to the gym, and i have no problem staying in great shape every day of the year.
    social media is never an excuse.
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  9. shadow111

    shadow111 Boxing Junkie Full Member

    Aug 1, 2012
    It's not just social media, it's everything about the modern age that makes it harder for the average fighter to train as hard as fighters in the old days did. The top fighters today are at the top because they have true discipline and a desire to train and immerse themself in the gym. The top fighters are able to filter out all the distractions and stay in the gym on a daily basis, but on average most fighters can't maintain the dedication that the average fighter from decades ago did because there's a lot more distractions nowadays.
    captain hook likes this.
  10. sasto

    sasto Boxing Addict Full Member

    Aug 5, 2020
    Most of the sport science stuff has been done in sports with no size limit.

    Perhaps by the 50s they knew everything they needed to know about how to maximize 135lbs of human, so the more frequent competition shines through.
  11. Surrix

    Surrix Boxing Addict Full Member

    Sep 16, 2020
    Naw, in 50 ies roid juice was not well developed and actually I think majority of boxers at least till beginning of 70 ies were not juiced.

    The biggest difference is this:
    1. In old times there was no obsession with 0 in fight record.
    2. In old times they fought more frequently. Bonuses: more fights. Bad thing: they were too used relatively fast if compare with modern times.
    3. Modern times: negotiations and opponents cherry picking is longer process.
    A lot of boxers fights only 1-2 fights , good if 3 fights per 1 year when they had climbed up in rankings.
    Like: these who fights for not high purses, still fights more frequently.
    When they reach some level of income, they fight less frequently.
    Difficult to get fights, no one wants to get high risk / low reward fights.

    A lot of boxers are ring rusty or at least partially ring rusty.
    Old times it was not like till this level: 1 fight, then after 9 months next fight, then maybe after 6-12 months next fight.

    Social media plays impact: everyone is valued there, boxers are using social media, matters not only boxer's ranking in different ranking lists, also previous achievements in unpaid ranks, opponents he fought in unpaid ranks.
    This was also earlier of course, now there is added also: number of followers in xx social media sites, profiles, fans web pages, presence in internet.
    Google search results.

    Ppl are indirectly forced not only to train hard and a lot, also to care about their social media profiles, presence in internet.
    All this is like in all businesses, you need marketing, to be advertised directly and indirectly, PR stuff.

    Old times there were tickets sales, $ from broadcasting rights . Now there are ppvs and a lot of promotions are broadcasting events in internet, you pay $ and watch fight event. From smaller shows till very notable fight nights.
    Old times: if you are mentioned in newspapers, good if TV, this was all. sport journals. articles. interwievs.
    Now to this all is added internet : social media, sport news portals/ websites.
  12. Brighton bomber

    Brighton bomber Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

    Apr 4, 2005
    No, because boxing has a huge skill element it's not purely physical ability. Doesn't matter how big or strong or fast you are if you don't have the skills to go with that physical ability.

    So while heavyweights due to improved diet, training and PED's are bigger now that ever before it doesn't mean they are better because the skills may not be there like in previous era's.
    ShovelHook and MarkusFlorez99 like this.
  13. Dementia Pugulistica

    Dementia Pugulistica Active Member Full Member

    Nov 24, 2005
    I'm not sure I get your point. Athletes with physical attributes that will help them excel in certain sports are selected more often than others. There will always be outliers. I would like to see him tackle boxing exclusively though.
  14. SmackDaBum

    SmackDaBum TKO7 Full Member

    Nov 22, 2014
    If you change the rules and introduce new techniques into Sports you will see a change in physical profiles of The athletes over time.

    HW Boxing is a perfect example of that. Peak a boo doesnt work for Big guys fighting even bigger guys just for an example.

    And look at other Sports aswell. Hockey now a days doesnt have 60 second shifts. And red line off side is not there anymore. They have also introduced power breaks. That means that overall playing time has reduced from 25+ minutes a game to 20 minutes for the top players and they only have 30 second shifts. Also with no red line offside there is full Speed north and south sprints for the players. That is like comparing 400 meters to 800 meters. Just because you won in 800 meters 40 years ago doesnt mean you would be as good in 400 meters today compared to your peers only because you dominated them 40 years ago in another class. Athletes attribute profiles required for top level competition changes all the time in more advanced Sports like HW Boxing and hockey. Natutal selection of The best athletes fitted for the Sports ever changing landscape beats sport science and Evolution of training techniques.

    Do you get what i mean?
  15. Dementia Pugulistica

    Dementia Pugulistica Active Member Full Member

    Nov 24, 2005
    If rules change, playing surfaces etc change athletes will change to better suit the new conditions / environment? I think that's what you're saying and I'd agree. That's why I would have liked him to discuss boxing specifically because there have been very few changes since they started wearing gloves right? Maybe I'm wrong, dunno, ring size is the same etc..training techniques have changed and we are better at realizing the human body's full potential. That's why imo the ray robinsons of the past will always be able to compete with modern fighters in the same weight range. I don't think any rational fan believes that Marciano could compete against modern giants like Joshua and Fury but he matches up well with other 185lbers of any era. But if you think that athletes are "evolving" through natural selection over the course of a hundred years I respectfully disagree. We are doing the selecting in sports. Oh boy this could get out of hand!
    bandeedo likes this.