With better guidance and direction could Mike Tyson have beat Marciano's 49-0 HW record?

He definitely got psychologically boo-boo'd, no question there. All that money, hot ass, circling vultures...

 

That hairy lasso was always going to do him in i think.

 

I know Teddy Atlas hates him and everything should be taking with a pinch of salt, but stories like Mike allegedly touching a girl and Teddy trying to handle it are concerning.

Improper relations with the opposite sex, extreme aggression and anger and being a giant man-child would have always catapulted Mike into drama that his celebrity couldn't escape whether Cus or Rooney were around longer or not.

People that opine how well Mike would have continued doing with Cus and/or Rooney ignore the physical intensity of the style on him - see Patterson's back issues - Mike would have likely gone the same route or had to resort to anabolic assistance to maintain training intensity. The key thing however is the psychological impact of the massive life changes that celebrity afforded him. Some people are built to receive the attention of fame extremely well and some people crumble under such intense scrutiny. Add in Robin and Don King, white powders and Tokyo women and entourages and everything else. Prison actually probably saved Mike from himself in some ways.

Just happy to see him on the other side - not going the way of Liston. Not being found face down, penniless in a pool full of regret, vomit and what ifs. He may never have achieved what his potential truly was, but he has more than surpassed the human being potential that stared him in the face when he was reading books behind bars whilst violence and assaults at Mike's reading time plummeted dramatically. Nobody wants to get loved til' they love Mike

 

Great post. Giant man-child probably hits the nail on the head and i say that with no disrespect to Mike. He wasn't mature enough or ready or perhaps would never have been able to handle the mega stardom that came his way. Who would?

That would make a great thread - Who ever achieved such a standing in such a short space of time at such a young age? Did even Ali attain the heights Tyson did in a similar period of time? I don't think he did, he took longer and probably only exceeded real life when he stopped Foreman. Ali was doubted prior to winning the title where as Tyson already had the world holding it's breath to see if he was real when he fought Berbick and there followed a devastating hellacious 3 years. He was a household name and even women and housewives were talking about him let alone men and boxing fans.

One wonders who wouldn't have gone off the rails particularly given he didn't receive a loss in those peak years to ground him aka say, a Joe Louis.

There's never been anyone like Tyson. Liston and Foreman were held in awe for a bit but were much older and both run into Ali in their title infancy and didn't have the story Tyson had.

I'm rambling here but it really is mind boggling what Tyson was and did prior to losing. Little wonder he has so many people at the polar opposite ends of the scale - so many nuthuggers and so many haters. He's probably got the least people sitting in the middle ground of any boxer ever. For so many he's simply unbeatable during his short prime and for others any decent boxer that stands up to him has him capitulating.

What a gift to boxing he was

Truth be told tho he basically single handedly made boxing BIG again.

 

Very good post.

Patterson also came into the big time at a very early age. But he was already Olympic champion and therefore used to attention and always in the shadow of Marciano as a champion, whereas Tyson came from nowhere from the greater public's view and was seen as the saviour of the HW division after a decade of decline.

I personally find his exact quality hard to get a hold of. He could look invincible and then all of a sudden ordinary. The biggest knock against him imo is that he got bested twice by Holy, which makes it hard to say that it was down to an off night.

But top 10 for me for what he achieved. He never beat anyone really, really good, but steamrolled or dominated a lot of good ones.

 

I don't think Mike would of kept his focus for that long. Mariciano like Hagler and some others trained like a mad man and lived like a monk when in camp . Tyson made millions at a young age hardly surprising he lost his head.

 

I genuinely thought that he would be dead 1st decade of 2000's after he came out prison and with some of his press conferences. Either by drug overdose or violence as a result of some street ISH or at best put in a mental institution.

• Above all, because of how gracious Mike is, his respect for history makes him extremely honourable in talking about prior legends when H2H is proposed. His respect for fighters in general compared to hearing a Floyd Jnr speak as well as his relationship with Holyfield, his ability to laugh at himself - I really like what Mike has become in comparison to where I thought he would end up. Watching him and Evan Fields together with so much respect, friendliness and maturity is amazing considering how their second fight ended.

 

Simply put, Mike is likely the greatest destroyer of B and C class fighters of the ATGs. It's what he does against prime A class fighters that wasn't really proven and is questioned.

My dad grew me on Ali and Pele and Maradona. Watching Mike as a young kid was amazing and he deserved the hype given what he did in the ring and the intrigue he brought to the sport. Boxing is a cruel sport. People are paid to inflict criminal violence, life-changing aggression on their opponents and we love it as an audience. Mike basically made it cool again to be an ultra aggressive physical specimen - made the HW champ respected and feared again. Even in times where Mike took a beating, he took it like a man. The punishment that Buster put on him - yes, Mike never got up to come back like other ATGs did in their own trials, but Mike's chin and heart was solid.

I'm fairly happy that Mike absolutely destroys a fair number of ATGs, some who easily rank higher than him. However, when really put to the test, he also has serious intangible questionables compared to some of the other ATGs. It's really hard to rank Mike fairly - if he came out in today's world of social media, he would've been cancelled by any group of politically correct campaigners. Pick any group, Mike offends them at some point and he becomes another what if who does a really long prison sentence before he really establishes ATG credentials.

 

Nice post and i agree with basically all of it. Tyson would indeed beat some ATG's at his best and I've been saying for ages he's the greatest demolisher of average to good and even very good heavyweights. When it jumps out to ATG's there's still some questions but there is with some other guys too. Tho in poor shape and getting belted he did indeed hang in there a long time against Buster. He wasn't miles away from pulling a rabbit out of the hat either.