Without Mauricio Sulaiman how would Wilders career have gone?

I wish I was trolling...ol boy is unwell

 

[url]https://eyeonthering.com/boxing/john-mcdermott-vs-tyson-fury[/url]

Close fight but more have Fury winning than McDermott.

"McDermott overperformed expectations as a 7/2 underdog, was the David to Fury's Goliath, was coming forward more, was fighting in his hometown, had lost two close/controversial decisions to Danny Williams in his previous two fights (which were for the British title) Irish Gypsy Fury was disliked at the time, most of the hype and tribalistic support in Britain was behind the 2008 Olympic bronze medallist David Price, the commentary was atrocious and the scoring was too wide, hence the robbery narrative. Johnny Nelson stated just before the rematch that McDermott said he'd lost the first fight in the last two rounds."

You engage in a lot of revisionism (which often goes both ways) and seem to believe that your subjective opinion trumps an official result in these matters. I'm going by official results, not subjectivity.

McDerm and Wallin didn't come nearly as close as Wilder 1, who was one point away on one card from winning, half a second away from winning in the 12th and a subjective instantaneous referee decision away from winning in the 12th.

Mitch, get your facts right. One judge gave Whyte 2 rounds of the 5 full rounds contested, not 3. I don't care how many rounds you gave Whyte, on average the judges gave him 1 of 5. Wilder won 5 rounds in the first Fury fight and 3 rounds in the third according to the officials. Therefore Wilder won 8x the rounds Whyte did and a greater proportion of the rounds contested.

Whyte landed nothing of significance and got destroyed with one punch in 6 rounds. Even Wilder 2 was more competitive!

Ruiz has been ducking Luis Ortiz for years and recently tried to duck the shopworn 43 year old to fight Tyrone Spong in Mexico, you can look it up. Hearn should have offered Wilder 50-50 but he was trying to age Wilder out while narrowing AJ's experience deficit. AJ proved he was a coward against Ruiz IN THE RING, Wilder proved he was a warrior IN THE RING. No amount of promoter spin can ever change that.

If Wilder (or better yet Ortiz lol) beats Ruiz, how will your ranking system change then?

 

Wilder came a point from winning? Yeah from a biased judge, i would say roughly 95% of this forum had Fury winning on this fight, Wilder won like 2 or 3 rounds tops.

That Mcdemorrt reviews - watch the fight. The overwhelming majority on here that have seen the fight said Mcdermott won and if it not been for worst ref in my life time scoring it, Mcdemortt would have won. Never seen Mcdemott fight ever be disputed untill your post.

How did AJ prove he was coward against Ruiz? AJ beat him in rematch. As we all know Wilder has ducked AJ for years turning down mutiple career high purse offer. Hearn stated yesterday he attempted contacted Finkel again recently about a possible AJ vs Wilder but yet again no response. Whilst AJ has beaten the likes of Povetkin, Wlad and Whyte all of which Wilder has ducked. Wilder best win in Ortiz, ducked and turned down an offer from AJ despite publically calling for the fight days before. Yet you say AJ is the coward?

 

"This forum" is not the be all and end all but your statement isn't remotely accurate. Even Finkel (a poster on this forum, not Wilder's handler) who often criticises Fury, didn't think McDermott won it. A plurality on eyeonthering had Fury beating Wilder and McDermott but both were disputed, with many picking a draw or scoring them the other way. The record says 32-0-1, so objectively Fury is unbeaten even if you wish it were otherwise.

A points decision is also just one way to win a fight: you didn't dispute that Wilder was half a second away from winning after the 2nd KD or a subjective refereeing decision away from it being waved off before 10. Wilder clearly came the closest to defeating Fury in three different ways, who must have known that they were always liable to give close or even close-ish rounds to Wilder in America. You have to be really dominant to get the win in those circumstances.

"How did AJ prove he was coward against Ruiz?"

Because he QUIT. And although he won the rematch he did it by running a marathon from a stubby leaden footed light punching blob who hadn't trained. Both fights proved that AJ was relatively cowardly, just as Fury-Wilder 2 and 3 proved that Wilder was a warrior.

"Hearn stated yesterday..."

God help you.

"Whilst AJ has beaten the likes of..."

Fury's leftovers and a who's who of Chisora-level fringe contenders. Also got battered and forced to quit by Ruiz in America and schooled by Usyk at home.

 

Furys leftovers? By that you mean Wlad an ATG that Wilder bottled to fight? Are you not forgetting Povetkin, Parker, Whyte, Ruiz and Pulev all which have better records and career wins than Wilder let alone Wilder best win which is Ortiz.

AJ fought

Yet Wilder hit the deck from Fury a partial grazing body shot, is a warrior.

Wilder bottled the chance to fight AJ (mutiple times), Wlad, Povetkin, Whyte (for years) and Parker to fight opponents no where near their level.

"Chisora level fringe contenders" - Chisora has better wins on his re Ord than anyone Wilder has beaten.

 

"Furys leftovers?"

Yes. Wlad was Fury's leftovers because Fury dethroned him 17 months prior in Germany and didn't go life and death doing it.

"Wilder bottled to fight?"

Link me an article detailing an offer from Wlad's team to Wilder's team. Link me an article where Hearn offered team Wilder 50-50. It never happened because they were avoiding Wilder, trying to age him out, so Fury stole AJ's thunder in America and made a historic trilogy with Wilder, while Ruiz and Usyk were making him quit and schooling him.

"all which have better records and career wins than Wilder"

Barring Wlad and Povetkin (who was 39 with a young man's style and had just been dropped by David Price) they've all got crap records compared to Wilder and aren't fit to lace his boots. Even Povetkin never beat anyone as good as Ortiz and had a weak KO record compared to Wilder. If you're an aggressive pressure fighter worth your salt you shouldn't be letting the likes of Firtha survive all 30 minutes.

 

Wilder without Mauricio Suleiman is David Price.

 

knocked out by povetkin

 

So AJ beat Wlad the fight after Fury beat him and it was wlads first loss in years. Although AJ managed to do what Fury couldn't, not only hurt Wlad, drop him mutiple times and he stopped him. Do you now consider Wilder as "Fury leftovers"?.

Winkel was quoted saying that Wilder was not ready to fight Wlad is a baby in comparison (despite Wilder being world champion with over 30 pro fights).

Hearn never offerer 50/50 ( why would they, that would if been like Canelo offering Callum Smith 50/50).

Hearn reportedly offed on at least two 9cciasions over double Wilder career high purse at the time of the offer. Then DAZN offered Wilder 100m for two fights with AJ and offered to pay him double for Breazeale. Hence why everyone apart a couple of deluded LDBC poster can see its clear Wilder team have no confidence in Wilder winning that fight and has been ducking him for years.

Hearn recently contacted Finkel to arrange a possible fight between AJ vs Wilder after the Usyk fight and failed to reply.

Povetkin even after the AJ fight went onto have a better career win than Wilder has ever done in Whyte (Wilders best win Ortiz wouldn't makes AJ top 6 opponents and Wilder clearly lying ducked Whyte and AJ for years). That's 6 opponents with better records (in Wlad, Poverkin and Whyte cases far superior) than Wilder. How can you logically debate otherwise? Just look at the records and quality opponent beaten? Wilders record opponents beaten in on par with Chisora.

Now Wilder is fighting a guy Whyte won every round against. Using your logic he is now fighting Whyte's "leftovers". I wouldn't call a guy having a loss as "leftovers" that the sort mentality PBC use to protect their fighters from losing their "0". So they do what they did with Wilder and Tank and have them fight cherry pick soft poor opponents so they can be marketed as undefeated and avoid top fighters int he divison.

 

AJ beat a Wlad who had been beaten 17 months prior by Fury, was 41, 17 months inactive, winless in two years, without a KO in 2.5 years, in his last career fight, in Britain, aka Fury's leftovers. And he had to go life and death to do it, failed to outbox Wlad, was dropped, gassed and badly hurt. Only Fury was able to outbox Wlad in 69 career fights.

It would not be inaccurate to describe Wilder as Fury's leftovers because Fury was the first to beat him and Fury has beaten him twice now in very brutal fashion. Everyone expects a diminished version of Wilder going forward.

"Winkel was quoted saying that Wilder was not ready to fight Wlad"

Yes, at the start of 2015. If you'd asked AJ's team at that time they'd have said the exact same thing. Wlad's team never sent an offer to Wilder because he was dethroned in the same year by Fury and 17 months later the AJ fight was more lucrative for Wlad, with the chance to win 2 belts rather than 1 from Wilder.

"Hearn never offerer 50/50 ( why would they"

Because undisputed would have been one the biggest money fights ever and Wilder had the last piece of the puzzle, as well as being a longer reigning champ than Joshua. On top of that nothing is guaranteed: quitting against Ruiz lowered AJ's value, the value of undisputed and wasted a lot of time on an unnecessary fringe contender. But Hearn was playing games, wanted to age Wilder out, build AJ's experience and was making plenty of money against useless no-hopers like Takam and Parker in domestic stadium fights.

"Wilders record opponents beaten in on par with Chisora"

"Ortiz is a nightmare, man. He's like the mini Mike Tyson southpaw. How do you deal with that?" - Chisora

Ortiz’s best winning performances against mutual opponents relative to rivals

Page: 3-0 Ortiz KO’d 53 fight veteran Page in 8 in America, who was in the midst of a 6 year, 44 fight streak where only Ortiz stopped him among a slew of contenders and former/future champions, including Pulev and Fury.

Jennings: Ortiz outboxed and KO’d 19-1 Jennings in 7 in America, who was coming off a 9-3 loss to lineal champion and P4P No.2 Wlad. Ortiz stopped Jennings 5 rounds earlier than anyone else (Rivas) would in 28 fights and Jennings went on to give Joyce a highly competitive fight over the 12 round distance in Britain.

Thompson: Ortiz shut out and KO’d Thompson in 6 in America. Thompson had gone 12 rounds with Pulev in Germany and 12 rounds with Takam in France in the previous 30 months, losing 9-3 both times and had only been stopped by Wlad in 46 fights prior to Ortiz.

Scott: Ortiz shut out Scott over 12 and dropped him three times: the only time Scott was outpointed in 42 fights. Scott had previously given Chisora a highly competitive fight over 6 in Britain before the referee allowed him to quit.

Allen: Ortiz shut out and KO’d 9-1-1 Allen in 7 in Britain. Allen had landed almost 4x as many punches on Whyte over the 10 round distance in his previous fight. Ortiz stopped Allen 3 rounds earlier than anyone else (Yoka, Price) has in 27 fights.

Cojanu: 39 year old Ortiz KO’d Cojanu in 2 with one punch. Cojanu had gone the 12 round distance with titlist Parker in New Zealand in his previous fight.

"Now Wilder is fighting a guy Whyte won every round against."

Now Wilder is going to make Whyte and Chisora's performances against Helenius look terrible.

 

Your Citing people like Maliks Scott (who got battered by Chisora) Thompson low level durable journeyman like Allen and Cojanu as notable? Tlak about scraping the barrel.

That's no where near Parker and Whytes record etc.

Even Jennings whose only notable win should have been drawn against Perez who himself given gift draw Takam.

 

"That's no where near Parker and Whytes record"

Then why did Parker and Whyte do terribly against these Ortiz opponents compared to Ortiz? They didn't display anything close to Ortiz's power or skills.

"should have been drawn against Perez who himself given gift draw Takam"

In your opinion, the fact remains that Jennings beat Perez and Takam drew with him, just as Takam was demolished by Joyce in 6 whereas Jennings was highly competitive over 12 rounds.

 

Oh look the happy couple, just beautiful,

Man this picture just captures both of them in their right light, wish them continued years of love.