Wlad is not a top 20 HW, he has never beaten anyone of significance

Nay_Sayer · Sep 30, 2011

cross_trainer said: ↑

...You're suggesting that height is basically the only measure of a structure's sophistication, AND that the height of the Great Pyramid is a quantum leap beyond the height of the Aztec pyramids, rather than a marginal development beyond them. Neither of these assertions is self-evidently true.
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That should be obvious considering that the Great Pyramid is double the height of the tallest Mesoamerican pyramid.

If you're not an engineer yourself (are you?) then you can certainly post sources comparing the sophistication of these structures, or suggesting that the Cholula pyramid / Pyramid of the Sun are peanuts compared to the Great Pyramid.
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I don't know that a comparison between Cholula and Giza is even warranted seeing as Cholula isn't even a true pyramid.

You're also free to post sources showing (or suggesting) that the Great Pyramid's construction was orders of magnitude more complicated than the Aztec pyramids -- that the extra height was a massive qualitative difference.
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That goes without saying but I'll be happy to dig up the relevant sources.

Similarly, you're free to post sources -- any sources -- showing that Egypt's neighbors did not possess the engineering know-how to build a Great Pyramid.
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Now you are asking me to prove a negative. Sorry but it doesn't work that way. Make your own case or concede the point.

Nay_Sayer · Sep 30, 2011

cross_trainer said: ↑

Also, this. Again.
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Ancient Egypt is the source of modern medicine.

Nay_Sayer · Sep 30, 2011

Montero said: ↑

Yes it was created by the Spanish centuries ago, but it is perpetuated by black "leaders" today (see the Nation of Islam and other black supremacist groups). You didn't answer the question, do you believe somebody that has a "drop" of "black" blood in them to be black?
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I do not subscribe to the "One Drop" theory.

Nay_Sayer · Sep 30, 2011

Montero said: ↑

OK, so then one must be purely of "black" or "negro" blood to be considered "black" then, correct?
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I never said that.

bokalz · Sep 30, 2011

waay off topic. Wlad aint black

Nay_Sayer · Sep 30, 2011

Step Pyramid

Step pyramids are structures which characterized several cultures throughout history, in several locations throughout the world. These Pyramids typically are large and made of several layers of stone. The term refers to pyramids of similar design that emerged separately from one another, as there are no firmly established connections between the different civilizations that built them.

The most prolific builders of these step pyramids were the pre-Columbian civilizations. The remains of step pyramids can be found throughout the Mayan cities of the Yucatán as well as in Aztec and Toltec architecture. In many of these cases, successive layers of pyramids were built on top of the pre-existing structures, with which the pyramids expanded in size on a cyclical basis. This is true of the Great Pyramid of Cholula and of the Great Pyramid of Tenochtitlan.
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[url]http://www.absoluteastronomy.com/topics/Step_pyramid[/url]

The Evolution of the Egyptian Pyramid

The tombs of Egypt's earliest historical kings are found in Upper Egypt at Abydos and date ca. 3200 B.C.E (Fakhry 3). The introduction of mastabas coincided with an increase in the amount of highly valuable and increasingly elaborate equipment being buried with the king (Edwards 27), and serve as an evolutionary missing-link between the unrefined burial practices of the Predynastic Period and those of an emerging, solidified Egyptian state.
While mastaba tombs continued to be built by Egyptian nobles and officials long into Egyptian history, the kings of Egypt, with the exception of Shepseskaf in the Fifth (or Fourth) dynasty (Edwards 152), ceased to construct them after the reign of Djoser, known from his monuments as Netjerikhet (Shaw 90), in the Third Dynasty.

With the birth of the Third Dynasty, Egypt entered into a period previously unmatched in national achievement known as the Old Kingdom. Kings of the First and Second Dynasties used mud-brick as the primary material with which they would construct their tombs, but with the advent of the Third Dynasty the archaeological record is marked with the beginning of stone utilization in private monuments on a grand scale. Manetho, an Egyptian priest who lived ca. 290 BC, credits Imhotep, the vizier of King Djoser, as being the inventor of the art of building in stone (Edwards 34). However, it is of interest to note that the annals from the Palermo Stone record the construction of a large building called Men-netjeret, dating to the reign of Khasekhemwy or Nebka (Shaw 90). Dr. Jaromir Malek and other notable Egyptologists believe this structure may be known today as Gisr el-Mudir, at Saqqara. However, since this structure never proceeded beyond its initial stages of construction (Shaw 90), Manetho is vindicated in assigning credit to Imhotep for the first monument constructed entirely out of stone.

Imhotep chose for King Djoser the site on which his pyramid would be constructed, at Saqqara, near the early mastabas of the officials noted above (Edwards 34). Dating ca. 2680 B.C.E (Aldred 1998 46), the pyramid is thought to have originally been planned as a mastaba which underwent six different stages in planning that would itself lead to a transition from mastaba to pyramid. The first stage was composed of a square mastaba-like structure of local stone dressed in fine Tura limestone from a quarry on the eastern side of the Nile, near Memphis (Edwards 35). In approximate association with the cardinal directions, a feature which later became prominent in royal Egyptian funerary architecture, it measured roughly eight meters in height with each side measuring 63 meters in length (Edwards 35). Stage two saw an extension on all four sides by four meters and a second dressing of Tura limestone was added (Edwards 36). The height of the second stage was lowered by 0.7 meters, thus forming a step-mastaba. Imhotep's third stage involved the elongation of the east side only, by 8.6 meters, forming a longer axis east to west (Edwards 36). This newly enlarged mastaba, which makes up stage four, then became the lowest step in what was planned as a four stepped pyramid. The construction of a mortuary temple on the north face of the pyramid was initiated but before either the fourth stage or mortuary temple was completed, it was decided to extend the pyramid to the north and west (Edwards 36). This extension on the north and west side, the fifth stage of construction, was abandoned at the fourth step in the pyramid. The sixth stage saw the addition of stone materials to each side of the pyramid which resulted in a completed six-stepped pyramid with a ground plan of 140 x 118 meters and a height of 60 meters, which was once again dressed in fine Tura limestone (Shaw 9).

Remaining uninvestigated until 1821 by Prussian Consul-General von Minntoli (Fakhry 20), the vast substructure of Djoser's Step Pyramid, filled with a maze of corridors and chambers, is unique in Old Kingdom Egypt. However, as some of these passageways were never completed, it remains difficult to ascertain their originality as they just as easily could have been produced from early explorers or tomb robbers (Edwards 36). In tracing the evolution of the royal Egyptian pyramid complex, it is important to note that the substructure of Djoser's Step Pyramid, namely the vertical shaft and ramp, still retain elements which resemble earlier private mastabas (Edwards 47). If the Step Pyramid truly does serve as an evolutionary link between mastabas and pyramids, then features similar to later pyramids should also be observed. One such feature can be seen in that Djoser's tomb-chamber is built entirely from pink Aswan granite, a lithic-type later abundantly utilized in pyramid burial chambers (Edwards 37). With the exception of the mortuary temple found on the north side of the pyramid, the rest of the pyramid complex is unique to the Old Kingdom. In fact, even the mortuary temple is somewhat unique in that it is found on the northern face, whereas with later pyramids the mortuary temple is always found on the eastern face.

Although further attempts at step pyramids were made by subsequent kings of the Third Dynasty, namely those of Sekhemkhet, Khaba and Nebka, they were neither completed or show any real sign of continuing evolution in pyramid design. It is not until the first king of the Fourth Dynasty, Sneferu, that a significant step is taken with the pyramid he built at Meydum. First scientifically investigated by Sir Gaston Maspero in 1882 (Edwards 75), the pyramid of Meydum sits in transition from the Step Pyramids of the Third Dynasty and the True Pyramids of the Fourth, Fifth and Sixth Dynasties. The site chosen by Sneferu sits in a strategic location near the Fayium Oasis, overlooking the modern village of Meydum, from which the pyramid derives its name (Verner 160). In ancient times, however, the pyramid is thought to have been known as Djed-Sneferu, and it is this name which serves as one piece of evidence contributing to the pyramid's attribution to Sneferu (Lehner 97).

No blueprint for a true pyramid had yet been established when Sneferu moved his palace from Meydum to Dashour. However, the Bent Pyramid was the first to have been planned as a true pyramid from the outset (Verner 174). Archaeological investigation of the pyramid was not initiated until efforts were undertaken by Perring, Lupsius, and later by Sir Finders Petrie, in the 19th century (Verner 174). It is from these and subsequent investigations that it has been made possible to study the methods of construction utilized in the Bent Pyramid.

Originally, the pyramid's architects planned to have a true pyramid with an angle of 60°. However, the angle was reduced to roughly 55° shortly after construction commenced and thus required the enlargement of the base (Lehner 102). At about 45 meters above ground, the angle changed once again to a more gradual slope of 43° (Verner 462). It is from this decision that the Bent Pyramid derives its name. This change in angle allowed for a reduction in the size and number of blocks used in courses laid above 45 meters and was probably made in reaction to damage, evidenced by cracks, in the inner chambers (Verner 175). No other pyramid in Egypt retains as many of its casing stones as does the Bent, which is probably due in part to the traditional method of laying courses inclining inwards below the change in angle (Edwards 80). After the alternation in the angle of the pyramid was made, the courses were laid in the horizontal manner seen in use with later pyramids, including that of Khufu's at Giza (Lehner 102). In this respect the Bent pyramid sits in transition from the building practices utilized in the Third Dynasty with those of the so-called Great Pyramids at Giza built later in the Fourth Dynasty. The limestone core of the pyramid, comprised of local stone, rests directly on the sandy clay of Dashour, whereas the Tura limestone casing rests on an artificially constructed foundation, a feature which is again later seen at Giza (Verner 174). While it is widely assumed by the general public that Egyptian pyramids are comprised of a solid blocks of stone, such is not the case with Sneferu's Bent pyramid at Dashour. Here, and once again with the Great Pyramid at Giza, spaces in the stones were often filled with limestone and talfa debris (Lehner 102). This served the duel purpose of speeding construction and providing the pyramid with some flexibility should the site be struck by earthquake.
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[url]http://www.touregypt.net/featurestories/pyramidevolution.htm[/url]

As you can see, Step Pryamids, like the Great Pryamid of Cholula, represent an earlier stage in Pyramid building design than the True Pyramids, like the Great Pyramid at Giza.

Nay_Sayer · Sep 30, 2011

Montero said: ↑

Fine, then let us say that somebody has to be of majority negro/african blood to be "black", that still means that Egyptians were/are not black.
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According to whom?

Goyourownway · Sep 30, 2011

Wladimir Klitschko is a champion of his division,a champion of sport of boxing,and,most importantly,a champion of his race - the human race

The Mongoose · Oct 1, 2011

My last word on the subject...my assumption of King Tut's race (black, white, or tan by contemporary standards) being undetermined WAS RIGHT. Nay Sayer has yet to prove he was black African in any of this dribble. Class dismissed.

"I understand, based on a 'average' skin tone for Egypt today. I don't know the specifics of how they did that. I think, however, it would have been as accurate to have had the same facial reconstruction with either a lighter tone or a darker tone to the skin."

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Nay_Sayer · Oct 1, 2011

SILENCER said: ↑

Of course you should do your own research, because they weren't black. They were Semetic. Not about stealing history, it's about truth.
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You've just proven how clueless you are. The Ancient Egyptians were *not* Semites.

Nay_Sayer · Oct 1, 2011

The Mongoose said: ↑

My last word on the subject...my assumption of King Tut's race (black, white, or tan by contemporary standards) being undetermined WAS RIGHT. Nay Sayer has yet to prove he was black African in any of this dribble. Class dismissed.

"I understand, based on a 'average' skin tone for Egypt today. I don't know the specifics of how they did that. I think, however, it would have been as accurate to have had the same facial reconstruction with either a lighter tone or a darker tone to the skin."

This content is protected

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Please tell me exactly how they determined the skin tone for this facial reconstruction?

Can't wait to hear this...

Bub · Oct 1, 2011

I'd have to agree. The HW division is just crap & Wlad still isn't undefeated.

The Mongoose · Oct 1, 2011

Nay_Sayer said: ↑

Please tell me exactly how they determined the skin tone for this facial reconstruction?

Can't wait to hear this...
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You know how and why. But it doesn't matter because...

it would have been as accurate to have had the same facial reconstruction with either a lighter tone or a darker tone to the skin."

Nay_Sayer · Oct 1, 2011

SILENCER said: ↑

Ancient Egyptians were mostly Arab, easiest site to find it Wikipedia, and it provides a list of accurate sites.
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And just so you know, during the formation of the Ancient Egyptian State, there were no Arabs anywhere.

You are more than clueless....

The Mongoose · Oct 1, 2011

SILENCER said: ↑

pot n kettle.
Despite those who have claimed that modern Egyptians are a different race from ancient Egyptians, I personally think that modern Egyptians look remarkably like their ancient ancestors, and I doubt they are that much different.

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Interesting as this is consistent with Brace's findings and the more recent DNA testing.

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