Wlad klitschko better than Ali!!!!!!

Noone, skillwise.
Many bodyfeaturewise.

 

You're one of those fans who think size is everything? Did you not watch Pacuqiao/De La Hoya?

 

I think you guys are all giving Wlad way too much credit. Ali UD? Ali late TKO? KO10?

I don't see any way for Wlad to survive 5 rounds, and I think Wlad is a great talent.

 

Toney is shorter than either Liston or Klitschko and has a better chin than either. What's your point?

 

Did you just compare a 140+ vs 140+ fight with Klitschko vs Ali?

Size is not everything. But a lot. And the combo of size+KOratio is nearly deadly.

Let's put it this way:
How many somewhat good opponents (= those who don't lose every 4th fight or more) did Mike Tyson KO that were 6'3.5'' or taller?
ONE (of 6)

And Holyfield?
ONE (of 8 )

And Ali?
TWO (of 5)

And Wladimir Klitschko?
TEN

Frazier had 1 fight where he was taller, reachier and heavier (Dave Zyglewicz 32-4). Result: He won by KO 1. Frazier had 5 fights where he was smaller, shorter and lighter. Result: 3 losses and 2 wins by decision.

Size is usually a killer.

I don't think that fighting Wlad would be like any other of the fights of Ali.

 

My god, such is your desparation that you have to bring up Toney? Toney is great boxer but a noone at heavyweight with a record of 6(2x SD)-2-1. With only 1 KO. Please don't mention Toney.

But moreover I never claimed that small boxers are chinachins. In fact THEY HAVE TO HAVE good chins.

 

I'm bringing him up, not out of desperation but because you're trying to imply that klitschko being six foot five magically makes his chin better than Sonny Liston. I don't see what anybody's ko record has to do with it. I'm simply pointing out that Toney is shorter than either Liston or Wlad and yet his chin is better. According to your logic it should be worse.....but it isn't, thus proving that what you said about Liston's height is, along with every other point you've attempted to make in your valiant but ultimately doomed uphill struggle, complete and utter bollocks.

 

:yep

Now kiss your ***** goodnight, point made.

 

Can't see him KOing Vitali.


Against Wlad, Ali by a clear wide decision. KO is possible.

Against Vitali, Ali by a clear wide decision. KO highly unlikely.

 

I think Wlad is to big for Ali, and Ali wasn't an enormous enough puncher. Wlad might be boring, but his defense (not taking shots) is nothing short of amazing. The man just stands back, and jabs your head off. He could take somebody out within 2, but just shreds them for 7 instead.
Ali is the shorter, much lighter man. You wouldn't see Ali jab Wlad's head off...You'd see the other way around.

 

Looking at this fight, it seems rather simple. Wlad controls range with his jab and height/reach edges. Ali is the one forced to take risks, he can't outjab Klitschko. Eventually Ali walks into something. Cooper dropped him with a 187 lb left hook, Wlad could KO him. It's a bad matchup for Ali who lacks enough pop to disorganize Wlad out of his gameplan. No disrespect to Ali, the best of his era, but boxing has evolved and moved on. The buck does not stop at the 1960-70s Ali version as the greatest ever. Just like in 10-20-30 years time there will be a new future HWT champ who will be far superior to Lewis & the Klitschkos. Hard to imagine but he's coming.

 

I am a heavyweight fan who as an engineer appreciates facts, numbers, etc. Someome asked earlier if other sports could be approached mathematically. I would like to direct you to research sabermetrics for baseball and the website coldhardfootballfacts for football. CHFF has in particular has a concept called Quality Wins, which I believe knn has come up with his own terminology of a "non-bum" in previous threads.

Even if you completely disagree with knn's mathematical based logic, I would like to point out that he seems to be explaining his points well with no disrespect towards other posters while his critics fail to even read what he has posted before answering with the typical keyboard warrior response of "OMG U SUXXOR." If you truly disagree with him, find facts & numbers to back up your opinions. That is how you can convince him of his alleged error. Not everybody enjoys the sport of boxing from the same view. On one end of the spectrum, KNN enjoys the stats behind boxing, on the other end are casual fans who watch merely for KO's, and then there is everybody in between.

 

Forgive me for bringing this thread back to life...

But if I understand it correctly, knn's argument is not necessarily that Wlad is better than Ali, or that Wlad can beat Ali....just that Wlad's last ten wins are better than Ali's last 1o wins.
So:
Ali's last 10 wins:
Leon Spinks
Earnie Shavers
Alfredo Evangelista
Ken Norton
Richard Dunn
Jimmy Young
jean-Pierre Coopman
Joe Frazier
Joe Bugner
Ron Lyle

Wlad's last 10 wins:
Hasim Rahman
Tony Thompson
Sultan Ibragimov
Lamon Brewster
Ray Austin
Calvin Brock
Chris Byrd
Samuel Peter
Eliseo Castillo
DaVarryl Williamson

 

Thanks. I needed a good laugh.

 

He is here, Valuev.