Wlad Klitschko v. Joe Frazier

I cringe when I picture him trying to reach Wlad.

Actually, Frazier would have had a much better chance versus a pre-Manny Wlad, the guy who used to "fight small" by leaning in towards and down to his opponents. Still, I picture it as a war of attrition with Frazier not having enough durability in the end.

 

Agreed!

 

I disagree. The actual size of the heavyweights has increased since the 1960's and 1970's. Average things out, and you will see the guys from 1990/2000's are taller and bigger in general.

 

The size increase is not in the development of the human animal. In fact, in the US, the height of the average male is in DECLINE. So maybe Frazier would have been even shorter were he born today.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/usa/story/0,12271,1185457,00.html

 

I don't know what to say here. But let me try.

I agree with Sonny's Jab when he says that "Ali, Foreman, Liston, Lyle, Norton, Terrell and Bugner were all big guys".

I agree with Mendoza when he says that "the heavies of today are bigger than the heavies of the sixties and seventies" - whatever may be the cause.

Seamus has very kindly referred to a report. If one goes through it, it will be found that Americans have not grown at the pace at which Europeans are growing. But still Americans today are slightly taller than they were in 1850. Now Wladimir Klitshcko is not an American. He is an Ukrainian and therefore an European.

Finally, what can be applied to the general populace cannot be applied in toto to sports figures. Here other, more relevant, factors enter the picture.

 

I am not sure how to take this but if you look at photos and film of Dempsey, Louis Baer then look at the same of Holyfield Tyson with normal peopel around them you will see the early guys look huge and tower over people where Holyfield and Tyson are not of abnormal size. Baer Louis and Holyfield are all the same height. This is just an observation.

 

Precisely my points, Frazier is an American and we are not talking about the difference between 1850 and 2008, but between 1944 and 1976 or whenever the hell Wlad was born. Humans did not undergo some giant grow spurt between these three decades, and thus, as puported by someone, Joe Frazier would not be a strapping 225 were he fighting today. That is, unless he underwent the Michael Moorer Wendy's-Approved Diet.

To the greater point of this thread, I believe it was Georgie Benton who said Frazier had the worst body of any heavyweight he had ever seen, which was a compliment to Joe's fighting spirit and unique talents. So, perhaps, Joe is something of an exception and one of those rare guys of his size who could pull off something like this. My only problem with the match-up is that he would have no Plan B and very few rounds to make his Plan A work. This would play well into the hands of a Manny-programed Wlad.

 

I think Frazier was a shade less than 5'11", and I agree with Futch when he said Frazier doesn't have a good build for a heavyweight. As for the story, I don't think it’s scientific when it says, " One possible explanation lies with immigration. As more Mexicans and Chinese enter the US, these individuals may lower the average height, it is argued. "

Then counters, by saying it doesn't matter. Sure it does. It is rare to find a Mexican heavyweight, and Chinese are hardly ever in the upper weights. Immigration has lowered the average stature of American's more so than diet.

If the article focuses on traditional groups of US citizens that made up the heavyweight division, it would see no change on average. What would change is the amount of individuals over 6 feet tall. The population has greatly increased since the 1960’s and 1970’s. There are more people over 6’ tall now than there were then.

 

I find that hard to fathom Sonny.

 

Why ?

 

Whether muscle bulk or what Lewis is substancially bigger than Ali. Ali is bigger than many realise but he ain't no Lewis. Peak vs peak in a pre fight staredown the size difference would definitely show.

 

Me too. Lewis is visbilty taller than Ali, and much bigger overall.

Here are some photos of Ali next to the Klitschko brothers. While Ali might have shrunk and inch or so due to older age and his medical condition, The Klitschko's are not much taller than Lewis.

Ali was 6'3". Lewis is listed at 6'5". Wlad 6'6", Vitlai 6'7 1/2"

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Lewis is not substantially bigger.

 

Substantially bigger? Depends on how you define it. Visibly bigger, yes. Lewis in his prime had about 2" of height, 3-4" of reach, and 30 pounds of weight on Ali.

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Sorry to go off track. This is a Frazier vs W. Klitschko thread.

 

Ali has probably lost a bit of height in that picture, he's an old man.

I've seen both guys up close and the general size of their frame is about the same. You can tell from the size of their hands, their joints, their width.

20 pounds in weight and 2 inches in height is not a massive amount among such big men.