Wlad Klitschko v. Joe Frazier

Why only 20 pounds? Ali's best weight was about 215. Lewis' best weight was about 245. It’s more like 30 pounds, which in my opinion is a difference ( not massive, but an advantage ) when both fighters are in shape.

As for the tale of the tape between the two, did Ali have any measurement bigger than Lewis? Maybe one or two of many at best. Hence Lewis hands, joints, and width was greater.

 

Look Seamus, when I say that Frazier would have weighed more today then what he did when he was in his prime, I don't mean him in isolation. My point is that everyone from that era or earlier would have weighed more today if they wanted to, with the advances in growth enhancing substances, supplements, food and training methods. This is true in every sport. Surely, boxing - with such high stakes - could not be oblivious of such advances.

I have already given examples. Here is another one. Early in his career, Ali weighed about 210. Throughout the later stages of his career his effective fighting weight hovered around 215. Now look at Lennox Lewis. Early on he fought in the mid to upper 220s but later fought very effectively at 245 and even at 250 and more. A gain of more than 20 pounds compared to a measly 5 pounds. Why was this so? Give it a thought.

And Mendoza has a point. There has been large-scale migration of Mexicans,
Chinese and also other East Asians and Hispanics into the USA - and if these people were included in the study - it is bound to bring down the average size of the average inhabitant of America. Punchy too has made a pertinent observation.

I agree with you when you say that Frazier had no Plan B. He never did, except in the second Foreman fight. To my mind, he looked comic and tragic at the same time in that fight. Wlad could very easily win. The only thing that bothers me is his caving in against Sanders and Brewster. The same thing very nearly happened against Peter too.

 

Okey, imagine if wlad would be 6'1, 210 lb he would be even more faster and mobile fighter than today..just like he use his full offensive arsenal against Mercer or Schults, when he was " rookie "...

 

Wlad sure would not be 6'1" and 210 lbs during Frazier's era. In fact, he is one of those rare modern guys who looks like he is conditioned similar to the boxers of the past. He would not be significantly lighter. Maybe he would be around 230-235 lbs at about 6'5".

He would still have a huge advantage over Frazier. Still, his chin bothers me against a constant-pressure fighter who was all heart.

 

You can dream what you want, but truth is - wlad is much to big for frasier. Frasier never reach wlads chin and if wlad moves like novadays, there is no chance than frasier even can reach wlad's body...

 

You are entitled to your opinion. :|

 

This one could go either way - But I'd favour Frazier 60/40.

Foreman and Klitschko are not comparable. Klitschko tends to throw straighter, sharper punches, and doesn't have the chin, composure or tenacity of a young Foreman. Klitschko is a big puncher but he's rigid and predictable, if Frazier can bob and weave his way inside he has the power to hurt Klitschko physically and mentally.

It's about Fraziers patience though - If he storms in, and Klitschko establishes the jab, he will begin to tee him up with his big right hand and Klitschko could stop him early.

If he's patient, waits for Klitschko to initiate and works his way in gradually, he'd have a better chance. I'm not saying Frazier should "box" Klitschko or fight on the backfoot, just to be aware that the longer the bout goes on the more it favours him.

Klitschko lacks the psychology of a real fighter. His conditioning is far inferior to Fraziers, and he's likely to break down mentally if he's unable to control the fight as he plans.

I'd take Frazier by a late stoppage with a few knockdowns throughout the course of the fight, but if he's sloppy it could lead to an early Klitschko knockout. I don't see this one going the distance, two explosive punchers with suspect chins makes for an interesting fight.

 

Wlad is to big, wlad ko 3

 

What were some of the other big punchers other then foreman Joe fought ?

 

What makes you think young Foreman's chin was so good?

Frazier hardly landed on him and Frazier was a notoriously slow started as well as not a one-punch guy, but a wear-you-down type of puncher. Norton landed about one left hook and a few rights which he didn't sit down on because he backed right up. Lyle (who only KO'd glass chinned Shavers and went the distance against every other decent fighter) landed plenty and knocked Foreman down twice, nearly out. Ali stunned him several times and had him out by 8. That may have been due to exhaustion, but you can say the same about Wlad vs Brewster/Purrity.
And then Young, a very light hitter, knocks him down in the 12th. Exhaustion again? Maybe, but it wasn't exactly a slugfest.. it was a relatively slow fight. Foreman fought very few punches, and the ones that did land (or-non punchers) troubled him plenty.

 

I do believe Foreman had a very good chin.

I believe the Rumble In the Jungle stoppage can be attributed to exhaustion.

I think his 80's/90's run as a plodding old man, whose strategy relied on absorbing punishment (in some cases, e.g., Moorer) is a good indicator of the quality of his chin.

Do you think Klitschko has a better chin? Or are you just arguing that they are comparable?

 

If Wlad attempts to do what Foreman did, and Frazier keeps getting up, I'm not sure Wlad could cope with it. He crumbled when Brewster soaked it up and came back for more, a similar thing happened when he was younger, against Purrity.

Of course that doesn't prove anything, I'm just saying some aspects of Wlad are still unproven. Getting off the deck himself to win fights has proven his heart, but him keeping his composure and confidence in the face of stubborn resistance is still a question mark.

But the "new improved" Wlad fights a bit jab-and-grab anyway, so I dont think he'd' actually even attempt to blast out Frazier.

I think Frazier's being a bit underrated in this match. The fact that Wlad has already looked more destructible, more vulnerable, than Foreman, really makes that comparison flawed. Frazier caught Foreman with left hook to the jaw and it bounced off.
Frazier reached the chin of everyone he fought, and some were 6'4 or 6'5. And he battered the midsection of everyone he fought.
So saying Frazier wouldn't touch him is silly.

 

Wlad is very definitely no Foreman.