Wlad Klitschko v. Joe Frazier

I think Foreman should probably be favoured over Wlad in a fantasy matchup, but there are a couple of things that should be considered first. For one thing, if I remember correctly Wlad's only losses were caused by left hooks. Purity, Sanders and Brewster all finished him with the left. Foreman rarely exercised the use of the left hook, and in fact was a massive right hand hitter. That of course is not to say that if he nailed Wlad with a couple of big rights, and some straight left jabs, that he might not have beaten him. Wlad is also a large fighter who can stick and move along with incorporating many essential ring fundamentals. These types of fighters gave Foreman trouble in both of his careers. What's more, unlike many of those men who troubled Foreman, Wlad has power which compliments his abilities rather nicely.

That said, I would still favor Foreman to beat him head to head, but I wouldn't make any solid convictions about it. For someone to say something like " well Sanders, Purity and Brewster beat him easily, so Foreman would kill him", does not demonstrate a working knowledge of these fighters, nor a well thought out styles analysis.

 

I wasn't talking about Wlad vs Foreman, i was backing up Sonny's point that Wlad is no Foreman when it comes to facing Frazier.

And Foreman had a huge left hook.

 

I know that you were discussing something different, and I wasn't challenging you to a debate. I was simply pointing a few things out as a sidenote more or less. Yes, I suppose Foreman could bang with the left, but I'm sure you'll agree that this was no where near being his primary weopon.

 

No worries mate

Tho i can't recall offhand i'm pretty sure Foreman had quite a few displays of a huge left hook.

 

He was certainly dangerous at hitting with both the left and right to the body. I believe that most of his finishing moments came with rights to the head though.

 

Well i was talking about the Young Foreman who was wild and had a very weak defense and balance. I don't think Klitschko has a better chin, but i don't think there's a huge gap between them, either.
Peter is about the same level as Lyle, Sanders and Brewster both have more power and speed than the undertrained Frazier that Foreman had (though Frazier had other qualities over Brewster and Sanders, obviously .... which didn't come into play). Young hits about as hard as Byrd and he floored Foreman. Ali is not really a top hitter either. See what i mean? Of course, Wlad has been down numerous times, which is why i'd give Foreman the edge, but i don't think there's a grand canyon between them.

 

A fair call.

I think that if Foreman had been hit with some of Corrie Sanders greates shots, he might have been badly stunned or even dropped. A similar argument can be made for Purity and Brewster who were big hard hitting heavyweights.

 

Talk about a tough one to call. If you put a gun to my head I'll have to go with Vlad. Too big plain and simple. Plus having Steward in his corner adds another dimension to his arsenal. Vlad is a modern skilled big man who can punch. The chin factor may not even play itself out in this one. Joe has a chance if he can drag this out into the later rounds but I'm not sure it would happen. I'd bet on Vlad but I wouldn't bet my life savings that's for sure.

 

I don't think that Wlad's current style would work well against Frazier. You have to put a hurting on Frazier early to beat him before he gets going. Wlad waits and waits now and doesn't throw enough punches. I see Frazier taking Wlad out after he gets into a groove.



If this was before Manny Steward trained him, he would have a much better chance because he let his hands go more and was a more offensive minded fighter. I could see Wlad getting an early ko, but I believe it is more likely that Frazier would weather an early storm and get Wlad out of there in 6.

 

Frazier would finish Wladimir off inside of 5 via a vicious body attack.

Wladimir won't know what to do when Frazier starts to go to work on the inside. His inside game, nowadays, consists of clinch + lean.

 

Yes, and exactly what is Frazier going to do against that? Did you see Ali vs Frazier II?

 

Wlad's got the physical advantages, or most of them. But what Sizzle said bears reiterating - he doesn't really have the psychology of a real fighter. What I mean is when the chips are down, really really down, I think he comes up empty. Frazier does not.

The fighter better equipped to deal with real adversity here is Frazier. He can take stick and come back. So far, Wlad has not. Yeah, he got up to win against Peter, but so what? Peter is nothing special, and at times Wlad went to pieces in that fight.

Wlad's imposing size, ramrod jab and big right hand will be formidable weapons, but he will not bomb Frazier out early. Wlad snipes these days, picking his punches and he takes minimal risks. His mentality is not that of a destroyer. It also takes him about 4 or 5 rounds to start really unloading with the right hand...and he was tentative as hell against a non-threat like Igbragimov.
He's not a stalker, but a safety-first sniper who establishes his range, holds in close and dictates the pace of the fight with his jab. So one of Joe's weaknesses, usually a slow start, most likely won't be exploited.

What happens if Wlad is not allowed to fight at his pace? What if someone could get under a lot of those long-range missiles and force Wlad to fight at a higher, more frenetic pace. Could Wlad's punch n' clinch style work in such a fight?

Assuming Joe can get past the jab (not easy obviously) and force his way inside, I don't believe for a second Klitshcko will try to engage him. He'll grab, grab, grab. He will take no risks at all inside and do a bonecrusher Smith as long as Frazier's inside.

The key for me is Frazier's ability to get past the jab, then somehow try and do a number on Wlad in close. Wlad's right hand will no doubt be a factor, and it's the weapon that keeps opponents in check for Wlad, but Joe got in really low, bobbing and weaving, and I fancy a good many of those rights (when Wlad starts throwing them) will be glancing punches, or puches that land high on Frazier's head. Wlad won't get to many looks at Frazier's chin, and since he hasn't shown us much of an uppercut so far, that could be a serious factor.
Will Joe be wary of the right hand? Definitely, but at the same time only an idiot would stay back. Frazier only knew one word - forward - and the quicker he can get inside the quicker that right hand becomes a non-factor.

There will a range in the fight that Joe could exploit. Wlad fights at long range at that's pretty much it. Anything closer than his preferred distance and he immediately goes defensive. Between gettng inside the jab and the point where Wlad starts holding, is where Frazier needs to unload with hooks.
I can definitely see Frazier connecting with a few hooks before Wlad finally manages to tie him up. Yes, he will have to soak punishment to get inside those long punches, but if any fighter is designed for that sort of fight, it's Joe Frazier.

As much of an asset as Wlad's size can be, it can also be a hinderance. Carrying that sort of bulk in a tough, fast-paced fight will tire him out, and it's not as if he's known for great stamina to begin with. Frazier could easily go 15 hard rounds...that's bread and butter for the man. Also, the huge height 'advantage' Wlad has could actually work in Frazier's favour, as Wlad would be presented with a small target coming in quick and low - and firing quick counter hooks in the process.
Frazier may be the smaller man, but he was strong and not actually small - just small compared to a 6'6 fighter.

It hinges on whether Frazier can force his way, or maybe more accurately, elude his way inside.

Tentative pick? Frazier over 15 rounds...UD.

 

Wlad doesnt like being hit and doesn't like pressure. Wlad may take the early rounds and possibly put Frazier down early but Frazier would keep coming and Wlad would run out of steam like he did against Brewster and Purrity to a stoppage between rounds 7 and 10. Wlads going to try to control Frazier with the jab and right, but just like against Ali Frazier would relentlessly slip, closing the gap and throw continously. Frazier would bang Wlads body allot too sapping his stamina further until he makes more mistakes and sucumbs to the left hook hammers in those later rounds

 

Fraizer would blast out Wlad via K.O.
no way in HELL Klit can take that left hook that Ali survived.
Wlad'S boxing is nothing compared to even a "Manilla" Ali. (IMO)

 

Don't know about the fool part...
but the Wlad>> Foreman , Wlad >> Ali part is kinda funny.

Klit would get bombed out by either Fraizer or EXSP Foreman
(Any era George, even Foreman grill Geroge Bounces him out)

Again, it's all opinion bro.