Wlad on his best night vs Prime Joe Louis, assessed with your head, not y'r heart.

Not at all. That shuffling style was deliberate. Bellieve it or not, Joe initially was actually a smoothie, a slickster, under Holman Williams.

 

It was only Louis' best ever performance up until that point. The man was still in the juvenile stages, and as proven by Schmeling still had holes in his game. I mean lets get real, Louis had been boxing for only two years! :yikes

As for washed up, Schmeling certainly showed he had something left, Louis tho still developing was still no easy win and very hot property. He fought brilliantly vs Louis, it's all there on film.

So tell me, do you consider the Louis Schmeling beat to be peak?

Well the New York Times gave it 10-5 to Louis in the godoy fight and others scored similar, so you might be on your Pat Malone there sorry, and even if scored a loss vs Walcott the period changes just 6 months. We'll call it 13 1/2 years if you like.

I'd hardly jump up on a pedestal boasting Wlads opposition.

Purrity was 24-13-1 and had lost 3 of his last 4 fights, he's really not much chop overall.

Tell me about the fluke bearing in mind many in here don't believe in flukes in a boxing ring.

All debatable, based on pure speculation and anything but "the truth" that you labelled it, no?

So lets break it down, out of all the good boxers Louis faced how many actually beat him? Better still, how many beat him at his peak? And again, how did your said boxers that troubled him first time out fare in rematches?

Uh, no, your comment was " You have to admit the above, because it is the truth." Your comments about Wlad's power and range came after this statement and have nothing to do with it.

I am labelling your comments about Conn as not the "truth" because they are pure speculation, simple as that. I am correct, no?

 

I'm just going to chime in on this one part of your response to JT.

When Schmeling beat Louis in 1936, he was not what I would call washed up. He was maybe 30 years old, and was the man who people felt was the most qualified contender for Jim Braddock's title. Additionally, he defeated a very talented and competitive Joe Louis, but one who was still developing. According to the most recent documentary on HBO ( which I know you saw ), Louis was taking his early success, a bit too laxly, and spent more time playing than he did training for Schmeling. Following the loss, he trained harder, and took his career more seriously, resulting in him destroying Max in one round.

So your ascertion that Schmeling was washed up, or that he beat a peak Louis, was a tad inaccurate.

 

Look, of all the fighter that Joe Louise fought, not a single one comes close to possessing all the things that Wladimir brings to the table. Who has Wlads jab? Speed? Size? Weight? Technique? Power? Left hook? Right Cross? Accuracy?

Not a single fighter that Joe ever fought can bring all of these elements to the table the way Wlad does. Yes, he fought guys that possessed one or two of this things in an equal capacity to Wlad, but never one that had them all.

 

Louis had 90+ boxing exhibitions in the army. So his ring rust was far less, he had warm up fights, and he was younger.

I think Vitlai will defeat Peter, but if he looses at age 36/37, after a 3.5 year lay off, I think the loss should be put into context vs others with similar numbers. Ie, the old Joe Louis who fought Marciano, the old Ali who fought Holmes, the old Jeffires who fought Johnson, etc.... I think it’s a safe bet to say that Vitlai will look better than those guys did. If Vitali wins as I suspect he will, he should get a ton of credit. I also suspect others will instantly try to belittle Peter. We’ll see.

PS: Wlad tired to offer Purity a re-match for big dollars. Purrity refused. It is unlikely Sanders will ever get back to where he was, but Wlad did consider him an opponent. Boxing is different these days. There are no more bum of ht month clubs. When Louis was King, he can make any match and did not have to worry about being stripped for not making mandatory’s. Wlad can not offer a washed up Sanders a title fight. There would be outrage, and the WBO would strip him for not making a mandatory vs Thompson. See my point?

 

In other words, you're aligning this as a no-lose situation in which if Vitali wins, he's a legend, and if he loses, it should just be ignored. And I think the Louis who fought Marciano or the Jeffries who fought Johnson would quite likely beat Peter.

Those guys didn't "look good" because: A. they were veterans of countless brutal wars and championship fights with untold wear in the ring, while Vitali had only a handful of fights against opponents even close to being serious contenders and only two against elite fighters. If Vitali had 60+ pro fights and had faced a half-dozen or more future Hall-of-Famers, especially given his incredible propensity for injuring himself, I don't doubt he'd be more than through by this stage.

And I certainly won't "instantly" belittle Peter if Vitali wins; I've been critical of Peter ever since he emerged as a player on the world scale, back when he was undefeated. From the first time I saw him fight, I said he was crude, overweight, predictable, slow on his feet, lacked variety, and was not a very adept pressure fighter, and that people were wildly jumping the gun in proclaiming him to have the biggest punch in the division, and (in many cases) a top-drawer chin to go with it. I predicted that Wlad would outbox Peter ala Lewis vs. Tua, and took Toney to edge him out over the distance in their first fight.

I stand by my views in this case; in fact, I think history has vindicated my position quite nicely. Peter has never stopped an opponent known for durability, and since he began consistently fighting top 50-level opposition (before this he was 18-0 with 17 KOs), he has had only six stoppages in 13 fights. Even his one stoppage over a top 10 opponent (the very old, very chinny, very rusty Maskaev) came with the other guy never off his feet after a barrage from Peter and was arguably premature. His chin has likewise been shown to be overhyped after a battered old Jameel McCline put him on the deck three times and could have had him out. He's just plain not a top-tier heavyweight.

While this is true and Wlad's actions are defensible, certainly the two fighters' results demonstrate an enormous gap in the level of their performance to date.

 

Chime in anytime on anything mate, whether agreeing with me or not - that's what she's all about

:good

 

I think Vitali will have more left than either Louis or Jeffries did in their final fight. I already think Vitlai has accomplished quite a bit. He is a ring magazine champ, owns the highest KO% in the history of heavyweight boxing, has never been floored by a punch, and has never been down on the cards after 3 rounds in any of his fights. If he beats Peter, he will have comeback to defeat a highly ranked, never Ko'd fighter in his prime. And no, I don’t think either Louis or Jeffries in their last fight beat Sam Peter.

News flash. Vitali had over 200+ amateur boxing matches, 40+ kick boxing matches, and 37 and counting professional boxing matches. This is 277 combat matches vs heavyweights. The injuries stem from kick boxing days. Not all legenday heavyweight had a lot of fights. What about Ingo who you seem to think is a top 20 all time heavyweight? He did not have many pro fights. Or how about Joe Frazier for example. And do we really want to compare Frazier's comeback effort vs Cummings to the others? I think not.

The belittling mark was not directed toward you. It was directed to a few other posters who flat out don’t like Vitali. Peter has developed a sound jab, and has greatly improved his punches since becoming a pro. He is the #2 ring magazine rated heavyweight, and in his prime right now. Beating him will not be easy.

Hey now, weren't Walcott, Moore and Chalres older too when Marciano Ko'd them? Peter has only been down from one man. How many different fighters floored Moore, Charles and Walcott? And you better beleive many of those who did were not as strong as McCline. Anyone who fought Sam Peter knows he has a ton of power. His chin is very good too. Wlad hit him hard several times, and could not put Peter down. I think you're a good poster M_F, but you seem to have tunnel vision when I cross reference eras. I'd like to see you address this point regarding Peter age and chin vs the older 50's guys.