Wlad still looks like he is fighing Arreola.

Hopefully Chris pulls it out with a KO (which I doubt) and sets up a great stylistic match-up, POVETKIN-ARREOLA!!!!!!!!!

 

None, WiDDoW, because their are no decent heavyweights around with good resumes (apart from Holyfield), because this era of heavyweight boxing is awful, as you can see from Klitschko's lackluster resume of his own.

 

Thanks for at least trying to explain yourself.

Here are the problems...

1. Wlad doesn't need "revenge" for smack talking. Anyone can open their mouth, that doesn't mean that the person they are running their mouth about is avoiding them. It usually means that the person running their mouth would rather talk their way into a payday, rather than earn their way to a title shot. Doing some interviews in which you talk disrespectful about a fighter doesn't mean that you are now the man he must fight. This isn't grade school.

2. What Haye did at cruiser doesn't make him the top contender at Heavyweight. Especially considering that Haye didn't even beat the best cruiserweights in the world. People act like he just ran a muck in that division, yet he did not even beat a handful of guys that are considered better than those he did beat... he also didn't beat the IBF champion, which was the cruiserweight fight that people actually wanted to see. So, how does he go from not even fighting the best available guys at cruiserweight, to deserving an immediate shot at the unified Heavyweight Champ? He doesn't. If Wlad decides to fight him... he should consider himself lucky, because I honestly don't think that Haye would beat anyone in the top 6 at heavyweight. I can probably rattle off at least 10 fighters that would beat Haye at heavyweight. Which is exactly why they aren't interested in testing him out first... he's looking for a payday.

3. Wlad vs Haye wouldn't be bigger than Wlad vs Arreola in America. Arreola has actually had some good televised Heavyweight fights against some very highly touted Heavyweight prospects... and has made a pretty good name for himself. Especially with Mexican fans... and you know how they turn up for fights. Now, if Haye actually proves himself at Heavyweight by beating a top contender himself, then I would agree that Haye vs Wlad would be a HUGE fight for both men. As it stands right now, it would only be a huge fight for Haye. Wlad doesn't stand to gain much.

4. Monte Barrett is a fringe top 40 fighter nowadays. Arreola's wins over Witherspoon, Wills, and Walker alone are bigger than beating an over the hill Barrett. In Monte's best days, he was a decent 15-20 heavyweight... and that was YEARS ago. Haye promised the fans that he would be taking on a dangerous top 10 heavyweight in his first fight, and he lied. Nobody wants to call him on that though.

5. If every fighter has to seek out and immediately fight anyone who "smack talks"... then why isn't Haye fighting James Toney while he sits around and does nothing instead? James Toney has been calling out Haye just like Haye has been calling out Wlad. The difference is, Toney vs Haye makes A LOT more sense right now.

 

Nobody reads every single one of your silly ass post. So what, EPO Wlad has a better resume than the current bad crop of Y2K HW boxers. WOW! A lethargic era of HW boxing. All this proves is EPO Wlad is a carefully engineered facade who came along at the right time. This proves nothing.

 

Once again... nothing but biased opinions. That is why nobody takes you guys seriously. You aren't going to convince me that every heavyweight boxer in the entire world is lacking talent. I am not stupid enough to believe nonsense like that.

 

I just pointed out to you the fighter with the most talent whooped your boyfriend.

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1. Absolutely. But earning your way to a title shot despite mean beating a guy who is even less proven than Monte Barrett, who you claim in only a fringe top 40 heavyweight. That guy is Travis Walker, who's best win is a MD over 8 against another lard arse US prospect Jason Estrada. And that earns Arreola a title shot ahead of the undisputed cruiserweight champion?

2. Why not? Considering HW is his natural division aswell. So becoming undisputed champion in the division below does absolutely nothing? Does that mean that when Floyd Mayweather become #1 in the super-featherweight division, he should of started all over again when he moved up to lightweight? And then again when he moved up to light-welter etc? By your logic, they have proved nothing whatsoever. This isn't true. Haye proved he's a world class fighter with power, poise, speed and enthusiasm. He moved up to his natural weight class and got into great condition. It was never in question that he'd be a good heavyweight, he was already established as a contender.

3. So Wlad vs an unproven prospect with barely a couple of good names on his record would be bigger than Wlad vs the undisputed cruiserweight champion of the world, who destroyed a guy who destroyed another big US prospect in Tye Fields (though vastly over-rated). You talk about Mexican's turning out for fights, look however Brits do. We flouded Vegas for the Floyd-Hatton fight, more Brits than Americans, and again for Calzaghe-Hopkins.

4. He's more than a top 40 contender. Name my 40 fighters ahead of him then. Yes, wins over Witherspoon, Walker & Wills together are better than a sole win over Barrett, but Haye also destroyed the WBC's #11 ranked fighter Tomasz Bonin in a single round, and Arreola doesn't have the pedigree behind him that Haye does from his cruiserweight campaign.

5. Because Haye is seeking a greater opportunity and a bigger challenge, why fight Toney when he has a potential fight against Gomez lined up? Toney only just fought, there's no way he and Haye could fight around the same time as Vitali-Gomez. That means it only further delays his fight with Vitali. He wants to take them on while he's primed. Wlad himself isn't taking the greater opportunity and seeking the bigger challenge. He knows Haye provides a tougher fight than Arreola, makes more sense financially, does more for the his legacy etc. Yet he doesn't want to fight him.

 

Thanks for responding with a lot of opinions as opposed to facts.

1. Your opinion here is somewhat valid. But, Haye is at least perceived as a threat not a guy like Kingpin or even nowadays James Toney who try and talk themselves into shots with ain't doing jack recently. You would think that if Wlad was confident in beating Barret he would want to do so as punishment for running his mouth. And again Haye is not without credentials (tho at Cruiser where he was the man) and Haye would bring big dollars, so I don't know how not taking Haye As Oppposed to Arreola can be justified on the theory that you don't want to reward someone with a big fight just because he ran his mouth too much. Such a policy is not smart business and in this case it's hurts wlad's rep because rightly or wrongly some fans will take it as weakness.

2. Your opinion here is even less credible. Yes Haye is not deserving of being "the top contender at HW", but who is? Moreover, Wlad has certainly opted to fight equally less deserving fights. Plus, some (not me) actually think Haye is the top contender.

3. Your opinion that Wlad-Haye would be bigger if it takes place later after Haye gets another win or two is valid. But no way Wlad-Arreola would do more money (worldwide) than Wlad-Haye right now and that is all that I'm taking about.

4. Your opinion that Barret was just top 40 is reasonable tho I (and I beleive many) would disagree. First off name 39 better Hws. His recognized status of top 15-20 was not "many years" ago and i'm sure rating services can back that up. It was more like 2-3 years ago tops. He fought for the title in 06 had wins vs beck and guinn in and around 05, had nearly a victory over Mesi (when he was hot) and he looked about the same fighter vs Haye and Valuev then he did a couple of years ago. You should also give the guy credit for dismantiling Fields who is limited but huge and difficult to fight. Your opinion that Arreola's wins vs Walker and Chazz are better than Barrett's showings vs valuev and starching of Fields is reasonable but if its is better it ain't by much. (Who have chazz and walker been tested by and beat?) Certainly if you add in Barrett's work going back 2 to 3 years, it's debatable.

5. Again your opinion about whether to reward smack talking. Wlad shouldn't fight James Toney because very few (other than certain Wlad appolgists and Toney nuthuggers) want to see that fight or honestly give Toney a shot. Thoney is done and his fights since Peter 2 show that and even his "good" fights vs rahman 1, ruiz, peter 1, and oldyfield don't make him a threat to Wlad. Haye, rightly or wrongly, is a legit threat and brings big dollars and that is why Wlad stands to gain from fighting Haye as opposed to Toney.

 

So answer my question like I answered yours, WiDDoW, how do you rate this era of heavyweight boxing and the fighters within it compared to other era's?

Better than the 90's? No.
Better than the 70's? No.
Better than the 80's? Might be equal.
Better than the 60's? No.
Better than the 50's? No.
40's? No

And so on.

It's one of the worst era's ever.

 

I used opinions, because I am tired of stating the same facts over and over again.

1. The fans who actually act like Wlad is ducking a fighter with one win over a top 40 Heavyweight are not people who matter anyways. Just haters, and nobody takes them seriously.

2. I think that I have discussed and explained this enough times on about 30 different threads. I really don't feel like getting back into a discussion explaining why one win over Barrett doesn't spring Haye above everyone else.

3. My point is that right now, this fight is really only big for Haye. Wlad doesn't get much out of it because Haye is smaller, and unproven. Now, that doesn't mean that Haye isn't talented. The best thing that could happen in this division is if Haye would get some fire under his ass and start cleaning out top heavyweights like people say he "would". Wlad needs that signature fight, and if Haye did that, they Haye could give Wlad that fight that he needs. The problem is that right now, Wlad beats Haye... and he gets minumal credit for it. You know as well as I do that everyone will be tossing around the "unproven heavyweight"... "blown up cruiserweight" excuses to discredit that win, so exactly what does Wlad have to gain at this point? Do you actually believe that his critics and haters would start showing him respect or something? That isn't going to happen and they are the ONLY people who even try to pretend that Wlad is actually ducking a fighter who hasn't even proven his worth... only said disrespectful things. Once again... this isn't grade school and you don't have to punch someone just because they were "cappin" on you.

4. I have followed Barrett closely for years. I was also just about the ONLY fighter on this message board who was telling everyone that he would beat Guinn if they fought. People on here were acting like Guinn was a mix between Tyson and Holyfield, it was getting awful. Then, they fought... and Barrett won. I won about 5 avatar bets on that fight. I know that Barrett is an alright fighter... but he isn't ANYWHERE near the top of the division right now..... he wasn't even near the top of the division when he was given a title shot, it was pathetic. Honestly, beating Barrett really didn't prove anything to me. To be honest... although the fight was exciting, I thought that Haye looked pretty sloppy and vulnerable in that fight. Once again... another reason why I don't think that his management want to test him out against a top heavyweight first. They aren't confident that he would win. I don't blame them... because I am not confident that he could either. I hope he will... because as I said... the division could use that, and Wlad vs Haye could turn into a megafight.

5. I didn't say that Wlad should fight Toney. I said that Toney has been talking smack on HAYE and calling him out just like Haye has been doing to Wlad. Is Haye ducking Toney?

 

In your opinion. Just like everyone was calling the 90's one of the worst era's ever during the actual era... and now people rank them right behind or along with the 70's. Everyone always says this stuff during the era. Especially now that boxing isn't on network television with a huge following. It isn't about talent, it's about star power. There are ALWAYS... ALWAYS talented boxers in the world. The difference is how they are marketed, where they are from, and what kind of exposure they get. People mistake the heavyweight division lacking stars, for the division lacking the talent.

 

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Nah the 80's are vastly superior to this decade i reckon the 10's will be a good era though

 

I really don't have time to go through all of this... I have to run out to coach a wrestling session.

However, I will throw in that NOBODY ever considered Tye Fields a big prospect. The guy has always been considered a circus act, and a joke.

I would venture to say that Hatton and Calzaghe are bigger fighters over there than Haye, right? I am not saying that Haye isn't talented, because I KNOW that he is. What I am saying is.. people are out of their minds when they act like Wlad is dodging this guy who just got into the division. It's just absurd and it makes boxing look bad when our fans act like children.


Anyone on the business side of this sport will tell you that if you want Wlad vs Haye to be a mega fight... you are going to need at least 6 months to promote it. Wlad knows this... and Haye knows this. Wlad has to fight Povetkin in 9 months. Povetkin has definitely earned his shot... and has it coming. Now, Wlad can't squeeze a "mega fight" that needs to be promoted for six months within the next few months. So... unless he can get some sort of extension on fighting Povetkin, plans on dropping his title... at which point everyone will act like he is dodging Povetkin... then that fight can't be made.

Let's hope that things open up... and ALL of the fights get done. However, don't you think that the fight becomes bigger for both fighters, especially Wlad if Haye actually beats a top contender in some prime time spotlight first?

 

Don't forget that Corrie was no spring chicken here either. He showed up to test those whiskers.

Wlad's chin isn't bad. He just folds when he sees some adversity from a fighter with handspeed and some decent pop. He can dish it out when he wants to, but he sure can't take the heat. The terrible Peter had him just about looking for a way out after barely landing anything substantive.

I'm amused at the fanboys who call me a Wlad hater for telling it like it is. I think that Pre-Steward Wlad would almost certainly defeat David Haye. But these days, with Wladimir's ducking and dodging, I'm not so sure.

I wonder how he would handle it if David hits him with something flush. We may never know. A Lewis-Briggs type fight from Wladimir would be great, but we could only get that kind of fight out of Vitali.

Toughness is an intangible that some of the best technical boxers lack. Fight fans want to see that quality-- its part of why they buy tickets and why Wlad gets less credit than his fanboys think he deserves.