Wlad v Dempsey

Here's a realitycheck for the 63 delusional crackheads who think Dempsey has a chance of winning this:

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Because Mormeck was a 40 year old fighter coming off a two year layoff and was brought in strictly to pad Wlads record with a KO. I dont think thats indicative of how much success a prime Dempsey would have against Wlad. Its the same as comparing Willard's fight to how Wlad would do against Dempsey.

 

Good thinking Luf :good

 

So essentially your argument is that size alone doesnt beat Dempsey because Dempsey beat several big men whose only assett was their size. And thus Dempsey beats Wlad who is bigger than anyone Dempsey faced AND possess far more attributes than just size... See why your argument doesnt hold water?

You say Dempsey closed the gap on everyone in his career. He didnt but lets pretend he did. When he was in his prime the only two guys he faced that were anywhere near his size. skilled, and in their primes were Gibbons and Tunney. Both of whom would have looked like children standing next to Wlad. Neither of whom hit anywhere near as hard as Wlad. And say what you will but Wlad is skilled enough combined with his size, power, and athleticism to more than make up any deficiency he may have had in skill compared to Gibbons and Tunney.

What people who think Dempsey would just close the gap and stop Wlad love to ignore is that every man Dempsey closed the gap on that was even close to Wlad in terms of size was nowhere near as skilled (Firpo, Fulton) or significantly past his prime (Morris, Willard) or a combination of the two. Even then Dempsey admitted he was exhausted after the third round with Willard from his effort and glad Willard quit in his corner, and was dropped more than once by Firpo. The sad fact for Dempsey is the closest fighter in terms of style for a comparison that Dempsey fought to Wlad was Gene Tunney except that Tunney couldnt hit very hard due to his bad hands and just happened to be six inches shorter and 60 pounds lighter. Anyone really want to pretend that Wladimir is this slow lumbering 6'2" wild swinging neandertal? Get real. I have problems with the guy too but to pretend that a 190 pound overrated fighter who ducked the two best guys of his reign and feasted on weak competition is really going to go in and knock Wlad out in a few rounds because he did so against a few guys who literally couldnt hold Wlad's jock strap is nuts. Wladimir has a higher KO percentage over a longer period of time, at a higher level, against bigger, higher rated fighters than Dempsey and just happens to be a skilled, athletic, gigantic fighter with more experience (especially if you subtract the bull**** exhibition KOs and bouts against his sparring partners that keep getting added to Dempsey's record to pad it). Dempsey wouldnt even fight Wlad much less beat him.

 

And there is the truth...

 

If we're going to be literal here, I think most guys could hold Wlad's jock strap...if he let them, you know. They probably wouldn't want to as, say, a surprise cupping while it's actively being worn, but, if they just picked it up out of his locker or something, I don't think it would be so big that they literally couldn't hold it. I don't think anybody's jock strap is that big, really. Physiologically speaking, it just wouldn't make any sense to discount a possible holding of something like that.

 

Perhaps we can attack this one from another angle.

David Tua would likely receive more support than Dempsey - a fighter who lost all his big ones. He is essentially a come-forward hooker except with less speed, poorer head movement, worse stamina and inferior technique. Tua's more durable but that's not really a factor against a guy who needs to be backed up and disposed of. The sole reason Tua would be more considered is because he weighs more.

Weight being emphasised, whether it applies or not, is a classic pitfall in boxing forums, a Venus flytrap of sorts. Naturally there are weight divisions, so it's easy to reference weight like a trump card, but being a true fan is understanding when it doesn't count, like when you're talking about Jack Dempsey.

As we know Tua was not the same fighter when he hit 230lbs and beyond. And so we reach our conclusion. Tua would enjoy more consideration because he has something that is of no use.

Is it not so that Dempsey's celebrity and failure to meet his #1 has dampened his true worth whereas Wladimir's dominance over very poor competition has exaggerated his?

That seems to be the crux.

 

Dempsey isn't that great h2h but he would kill wlad early on.

 

Why does the name Jack Dempsey evoke such vitriol today only on this forum ?.
This question stumps me for an answer. Not to be redundant, I have been an avid
reader of Dempsey since the 1940s, and was so impressed by his toughness, speed of attack, two handed short punching power, ability to take a punch and quickly recover
and resume his attack, all these assets written about him by the vast majority of
his contemporaries who SAW him ringside...Watching Dempsey on film later on and
being impressed by the manner in which JD wrecked havoc on the giant Willard, who
not a mobile fighter was NEVER dropped before, and reading later on how Jack Kearns
bet a large amount of money that Dempsey would ko Willard in the very 1st round,
hence the all out attack by Dempsey in the very first round of the 105% Toledo sun.
By the way posters with any other referee other than Ollie Pecord, Dempsey who floored
Willard SEVEN times in the first round would have been declared the winner in the 1st rd.
Some posters who say I " if Dempsey could hit so hard, why did he not render big Jess
unconscious ,rather than just flooring Willard repeatedly"? .A question that was never
asked of the great Joe Louis who hit the hittable Abe Simon with every punch in his arsenal for THIRTEEN rounds before the fight was stopped in the 13th round with Abe Simon on his feet. Thirteenth rd...This tells me that there is a bias against Jack Dempsey mainly on this site by modern posters that run contrary to opinions of Dempsey's prowess
in the ring by all who saw him at his best...Who for me to believe ?
You know the answer folks...Did Dempsey help his legacy by quitting the ring and
going Hollywood ,bedding down silent screen sirens for 3 years without a fight? Heck no, but after his tough hobo beginning, hitting the money jackpot, living the life of
La Dolce Vita, that was his choice...His bigger mistake was returning to the ring in 1926
after a THREE year layoff, without one tuneup bout, without his mentor Jack Kearns with
whom he was suing, and at almost 32 years of age tackling a master boxer Gene Tunney.
All this a recipe for disaster...This was not the Dempsey of his earlier prime for sure.
Would the earlier Dempsey at his peak beat Klitschko ? A resounding yes from me cause
Dempsey loved the bigger boys as he proved many times at his best. Speed "kills" in boxing...That is my opinion but we all have our opinions, but one thing I know Dempsey
was a great fighter with unique talents seldom seen before or since...He would beat the
big boys I believe but would have it tougher with a prime Joe Louis and early edition of Mike Tyson IMO...Give JD his due for what he brought into the ring that made him the
greatest ring attraction of all time...peace.

 

Who are these great guys that Dempsey was dominant over? Surely being inactive years at a time while avoiding your top two challengers only to meet three light heavyweights (one of which was dying), a guy he had already beaten and was expected to beat easily again and instead nearly lost to and a crude hyped up media creation before losing to another LHW is hardly the stuff of a dominant legend. Does anyone think Wlad would do any worse against Fulton, Willard, Miske, Brennan, Carpentier, Gibbons, Firpo, and Tunney much less lose to them? Half those fights wouldnt even be allowed to take place. Is Wlad's competition really any worse than those guys? Gibbons and Tunney were skilled guys but lets also not forget that they posed the path of least resistence for Dempsey, Gibbons having lost his title eliminator in dominant fashion only to get the title shot and Tunney being chosen expressly because he was considered an easier proposition than Wills. If a fading, 6 foot 2, 220 pound Wills has Dempsey running scared do we really think hes not going to have problems climbing into the ring with a 6 foot 6 245 pound athletic guy in his prime who also happens to be a skilled boxer and in great shape?

 

Burt, it's the internet. Just grow a thick skin. :good

If you're a fan, don't let negative comments get to you because inevitably there are those that will rip into a fighter to bolster their argument. Sometimes the criticism is valid, other times not.
But whatever, just take it with a pinch of salt. It's not worth getting worked up over it.

 

Fulton and Firpo could turn the trick. We can ridicule their technique but we can't deny that they both hit like trucks and were game. Sharkey would have a decent chance of beating Wladimir.