Wladimir HOF worthy?

destroy Thompson, beat Peter in a rematch, and make a few title defenses against solid opponents as THE champion. The heavyweights are in a horrible time now, so it's unlikely that he will be inducted, but if he does that, with the defenses coming against Povetkin, Chagaev, maybe Virchis, and maybe Valuev, and then one more successful defense against a young guy like Chris Areola, and he should be inducted.

 

I think if he were to retire today, he would be inducted. Im pretty sure he will strengthen his candidacy in the coming future.

 

He definitely has the talent but those ko losses are gonna haunt him for the rest of his life. He's clearly the best in the division, but people still hesitate to call him the undisputed champ; despite him dominating the division for several years now.

IMO had he been american or British, he'd definitely be in already - but that's a different topic

 

Definitely NO!

Unfortunately for him this is a very weak division and he never had the chance to fight either a legend (Lewis, Holyfield, Tyson in their better days) or for the undisputed title. I just can't imagine he'll make it into the HOF, not even if you add his brother's resume to his...

HOF is 1) resume and 2) skills and unfortunately for him, there's no competition to make a HOF career against... maybe unifying the division, defending the World HW Title 10 times defeating the Hayes, Valuevs, Povetkins and bro Vitali will do the trick, but I don't see that coming... on the skill side, yes, he's very effective, but not at all a special or superb fighter, just a big fighter using his height advantage with a very decent jab very well, and that's all. Very very good jab, good defense, speed and power, but if you watch his fights before the Sanders loss, he used a lot more punches from his arsenal, was more aggressive, exciting and really looked special. But not today. It's a limited division is talents and names, he's limited his skills for the sake of the boring winning - not the best way to make a HOF career...

 

Needs to at least unify and have a few impressive wins of some more big names. I think people are really going to look back and say "Well the comp wasnt very good in his era." Without afew big name KO's i dont think he gets in.

 

I think he has done more than some other the heavies in the hall of fame. The big question is 99% of the hall of fame electors are older North American based voters. Wlad's ability with have to transcend his geographic origin.

 

He needs a few more defenses, and it wouldn't hurt to unify one more belt. There are alot of canards throws up as to why he will not be remembered as a great- lets deflate them:

1) He has too many losses.

Joe Walcott has 18. Max Bear 13. Ezzard Charles 25. Are three losses really that bad?

2) His losses are too embarrassing

the narrative of Walddy's career is that he still had a lot to learn on becoming a pro. Is Jack Johnson's getting knocked cold by Joe Chonyski going to be prohibitive? Jack Dempsy's being stopped in one by Jimmy Flynn, or losing to fat Wille Meehan? Sonny Liston had his jaw broken by someone named Marty Marshall.

3) Wladdy's chin is terrible.

He sure never was knocked on his ass by a 190 pound man like Muhammed the Greatest Ali was agaisnt Henry Cooper. Only Angelo Dundee's expanding the tear on the glove (he has admitted it) saved his man by being knocked out by a guy who would not be a fully filled out crusier today. Joe Louis hit the deck 8 times, again, against guys who would not even be cruisers today (Tony galento is particularly embarrasing). Marciano, known for an iron chin,hit the the deck agaisnt a light heavy in Archie Moore. Again, Johnson and Dempsey were knocked out cold. Yeah, Wladdy goes down a lot. He ussually gets back up. Lennox Lewis ring a bell? He sure hasn't been dropped like Floyd Patterson or Joe Frazier.

4) Wladdy fights in a terrible era.

And yet has mangaged wins against some proven guys in Sam Peter, Chris Byrd. Lamon Brewster, and Sultan Ibragamov. I will be one of the few to say that this "its a bad era" stuff is garbage. We have an era of expremely boring but highly experienced heavies. This is where the few more defenses come in. If Wlad beats a couple more guys like Sultan, highly expierienced guys who have transformed amatuer gold into profesional succes, and I am thinking of Povetkin and maybe Chagaev, then no one will be able to say that his opponents as a fighter were less than world class. I am just not sure that the opponents of Jack Dempsey, Joe Louis, Jack Johnson (when he was champ-he drew the color line too) Rocky Marciano, Sonny Liston, Larry Holms, Tyson, etc. are all that more impressive. Ali and Lennox were Ali and Lennox- the resumes of other great heavlies are similarly thin.

5) Wlad does not have a rugged style.

Which is anomylous at heavy, but a lot of guys, from Hector Camacho to Wille Pep, have become great with saftey first syles.

6) Wlad couldn't win head to heads agasint the greats.

Please. Please twice. We have been over this. Muhammed Ali tasted canvas against Henry Cooper, and stunk it up against Doug Jones, but would not have been in danger from Wlad Klit? Jack Johnson was knocked cold by Joe Chonsyksi, but would have licked Wladdy cold? With his size, power, knowledge and athleticism, any fighter in history would have had a tough night against THIS Wlad Klitschko.

7) Wlad's fights are boring

So what? Lewis, Larry Holmes, and even the great Ali himself, who I consider to be the three best head to head guys in the division, put up some real stinkeroos. Those of us who are real boxing fans appreciated those perfomances as much as the Thrilla in Manilla. I personally loved Lewis' fight against Tua.

8) Wladdy is not a unified champ

Neither was Larry Holmes. For that matter, neither were guys like like Jeffries and Dempsey who fought in the color line era. The British briefly recognized Lee Savold as a champ, and who can forget guys like Ernest Terrell and Buster Mathis? Just because another guy calls himself champ doesn' t mean that he is one.Wlad can never unify because there are four belts. But he is clearly the best of his era, having already beaten the number 2 guy in Peter.

 

i'd certainly say so

 

He has a lot of work to do to get there.

Best wins:
Chris Byrd x2 - Good wins no doubt, once while Byrd was ranked #1.
Sam Peter - Was ranked #11 at the time; the version he beat was not nearly as good as the version available now
Ibragamov - considered the worst of the beltholders at the time, and was only ranked #5 by Ring. Next best win against Shannon Briggs.
Ray Mercer: In his 40's by the time they fought
Botha, McCline, Barrett, Williamson - decent 5-10 level contenders who always got beaten when they stepped up, and other people beat them more convincingly. Brock probably falls into this category as well.
Brewster - would have been in the same boat as Mccline, etc had he not upset Wlad

Worst losses:
Corrie Sanders: Limited fighter who always lost when he stepped up, other than sparking Wlad. Next best win on resume is probably Michael Sprott.
Lamon Brewster - Perennial high-level gatekeeper / low-level contender outside of his lone good win against Wlad. Next best win is against Luan Krasniqi.
Ross Purrity - TKO loss to a journeyman.

So sure, he dominated a weight class for a while, getting KTFOed once every 4 years or so for good measure. Without the losses I'd say fine, but with them he's not even close. If he can unify, then he has a much better claim. I'd also like to see him take on his toughest opponents for once, now that they're all gunning for him. If he beats Peter again, Haye and Povetkin, then at least you can say he did everything he could to show he was the best, and that he solved how to hide his chin late in his career.

In any case, two wins over Chris Byrd, a win over green Sam Peter and a unification win over a weak beltholder and losses to a gatekeeper and two fringe contenders just doesn't do it for me. Sorry.

 

lol his resume is pathetic when you look at it, Byrd was never that good and his losses are absolutely shocking, even worse than Lennoxs were :rofl

 

Yes. Based on the standards of the HOF he will get in.

You may have complaint and hope he doesn't get inducted but as it stands now in my opinion he gets in. Probably not a first ballot inductee.

 

Comparing only numbers does not make much sense without taking into account other things. For example, Baer fought up to five times in some months. There is no way to be in top shape every week in your career, so it is understable one will lose from time to time, sometimes even against relatively weak opponent.

Nowadays top boxers rarely fight more than 2-3 fights a year, and whenever they have injuries, health problems or something like that they just postpone/cancel the fight they would be likely to lose. And you can play this trick again and again, just ask Wlad's older brother ;-)

Come on, calling Brewster "proven guy" is definitely an overstatement. It seems like Brester is proven since he won with Wlad, and therefore when Wlad rematched him it was important win, thus closing this vicious circle.

Well, the problem is that Brewster only other achievement was against old Golota, but he couldn't win against Lyakowicz, Shufford or even Etienne.

And still, unlike Etienne, Wlad needed two fights to "manage a win" over him.

 

definitely not. for me you have to atleast face and defeat other hof fighters. unlucky for wlad he is in the division at its worst with no credible opponents. his ko losses to average fighters doesnt help also.