Wladimir Klitschko against Ali's opposition

I doubt that Ali took Foreman's best punches, as weird as that may sound. On that night, Foreman looked so much slower than in his best fights, whatever the reason. Punching power is a combination of speed and force, without the speed it turns into pushing power that does not create the mechanical impact of a Ko punch. This is one reason why a 500 pound bench presser like Valuev doesn't punch that hard. Besides, Foreman was mostly punching to the body and certainly Ali was a man of pure steel in taking body punches. Ali saw most of the head shots coming and moved his head to reduce their imapact. Ali had every concivable advantage on that night in Zaire and I believe he knew very well why he didn't give Foreman a rematch. I give lots of credit to Ali, his win was a masterpiece of excecuting a gameplan, but it does not allow conclusions about how Ali would take Wlad's best shots.

 

Wald outjabs Holmes, outslugs Foreman, outlefthooks Frazier, takes Shavers' best shots with his arms by his side, knocks Chuvalo cold with the first shot he lands, outspeeds Patterson, outworks Norton and psyches out Liston before the opening rings.

all hail Waldimir Klitschko.

 

Wlad would simply not last in that era. He doesn't have the toughness, stamina or mental mindset to do close to what Ali did. Imagine Wladimir going to Zaire and facing this unbeaten monster named Foreman. Remember all this and he would be training old school, none of this new technology and vitamins and **** like that. When he becomes champ he will be fighting 4 times a year instead of 2 times a year.

On his best night H2H, allowing no concessions for the diferrences in eras, I agree that he might be 60-0 but that's still debatable. But then again Ali at his best probably would have been 60-0 against his own competition. I mean ****, a 38 year old Wladimir would not beat a prime Holmes either.

 

Foreman and Liston beats Wlad. Frazier would most likely also beat Wlad, not too sure though. Wlad is favourite over the rest of em.

 

Why is Wlad a favourite over the rest of them? Wlad hasn't beaten any HOF's, no All time Greats, and has arguably not even fought a fighter who'd be a contender in the 1970s. He's been knocked out twice before, and by second rate fighters. And you guys, based purely on his punching power and size, would chose him against most all time greats from the past? Hilarious. Wlad has proved before that his china is made of china, and with big hitters like Frazier, Foreman, Lyle, Shavers, and Liston to contend with, he'd lose every single one of them.

To the person that says every sport has evolved, you're meaning to tell me that the fighters from today are greater than past fighters. Mayweather Jr is better than Leonard? Cotto is better than Duran? Williams is better than Hearns? None of them are, and Wlad is a joke who has been stopped before by secondrate fighters, and has yet to beat anyone worthy of Ali's, Fraziers, or Foreman's resume.

Wlad is ridicliously overrated.

 

wlad can probably beat norton and patterson.

but liston, frazier, foreman would ko him for sure.

jerry quarry and ron lyle would probably ko him as well.

 

Forgot about Earnie Shavers, he'd most likely beat Wlad too. The other three i had already written, that they would beat Wlad, so i dont see you point in that one. I've not seen much of Ron Lyle, but i think he is too open and Wlad would keep him on the backfoot and pinned up against the ropes.

The rest, i think he beats. I don't care if hes not beaten any HOF'ers, who do you want him to fight? He has that great ring generalship and Ken Norton, Jimmy Young, etc would not beat him, no. Aren't you also judging Foreman, Shavers all on punching power aswell? Then why comment that i'm only juding Wlad by power. I don't get it.

Who would you possibly want Wlad to fight?

 

:rofl:rofl:rofl:rofl:rofl

i think you got wladdys ***** too far up ass since it appears to be damaging your brain.

 

Foreman can take a better punch than Wlad, hits harder than Wlad, has knocked out much better opposition than Wlad, came back way after his prime and still won the title, unlike Wlad.

I think all Wlad is..is size and power. But the fact he can't take a hit at all would mean as soon as Shavers lands, he's out of there.

Wlad is great doing what he's doing/ But because he beats some tough europeans doesn't mean he can beat Muhammad Ali, the greatest Heavyweigtht ever liveds, competition.

 

Wlad had one weak performance mentally in his career against Sanders. other than that, when has he shown a lack of mental strength or toughness? Has he ever shown a lack of will? Ali was exceptional in mental strength, but Liston and Foreman were clearly not. Liston was a Tyson - like intimidator but in the first fight where he couldn't bully his opponent, he quit on his stool without even being seriously hurt. Wlad certainly has never shown such complete lack of toughness, being surprised by a power puncher like Sanders and losing composure is something else than quitting. While Frazier had tons of heart, he didn't have the discipline that is also part of the mental makeup of a fighter, he showed up overweight for title fights, something Wlad would never ever do. Ali may very well tower over all other fighters in mental strength but the other great fighters of his era IMO are not tougher or mentally stronger than Wlad. A mean demeanor like Liston is not the same as toughness in the ring.

Lack of stamina? Wlad overpaced once at age 21, he fought for ten rounds at middleweight pace, that would have taken the steam out of any big man. Whatever was wrong with him against Brewster, it was something out of the ordinary, it happens to world - class marathon runners and triathletes, you can have great stamina and still bonk during a competition for various reasons. Wlad's stamina is fine on a good day, if he has a breakdown like he did twice, certainly he would be beaten by any average fighter.

Besides, no fighter from that era has Wlad's natural athletic talents, that would matter just a little me thinks.

 

I never ever said that Wlad would beat Foreman or Shavers? I thought we were arguing about the rest of them? I also never said that he beats Alis competition.

 

Wlad doesn't beat Liston, Frazier, Lyle, Shavers, OR Foreman.

Wlad doesn't beat Foreman or Shavers in his prime, yet Ali beat them way after his. Puts things in perspective for me.

 

As i said, i agree. I don't see Lyle beating him though, but thats a minor thing. I have never made a case for Wlad being as good or even near Ali, all i said was that, he would beat most of the guys Ali fought, except four of them.

 

Hard to say who would beat Wlad. He has the skills and power to beat all of Ali's opposition, but his chin would let him down against at least 1 or 2 or 3 or.... I think pre-Ali Foreman would KO Wlad, takes a very good punch and always hit his opponents. Shavers would be a who gets tagged first. Liston would be a very interesting jab fest but I think Wlad would take him out. He would also KO Frazier IMO.

Young or old Ali would dissect Wlad and notch a TKO mid-late rounds.