Wladimir Klitschko beats Sonny Liston

disagree, brewster had trouble with sergei liahovic's fast hands and jab. I think williams would work his jab landing on the outside working his way in so he can unleash his triple left hook. Williams would totally control the boxing match, its clear williams was the better boxer. williams threw bombs at all angles and was an aggresive boxer who moved like a cat. I think once williams gets into range he will unleash his artilery and with his faster hands and better aggresion, williams would land frist and more efficiently. williams would tear brewster apart in a scuffle. I like williams by early Kayo, or by wide unanimous decision if the fight somehow goes to the cards.

 

An argument can be made for Wlad destroying Liston provided you factor in only their respective physical dimensions; Wlad is taller than Liston, faster than Liston, is a massive puncher (i'm going to sidestep 'who hit's harder' here), has a great jab etc. What mn the one hand we have one of the most intimidating heavyweights ever, a man with a good chin and a huge punch who beat many of his opponents as soon as he stared at them and, on the other, a powerful huge heavyweight with a very fragile mindset and a weak chin who panics when stung and has fallen to pieces in all of his losses.
I personally would favour Liston, physically he's got every thing he needs, psychologically imo he's got a sizeable edge. (I'll rebut the inevitable Ali fights argument when they come.)

 

Its truelly amazing how many klit worshippers block this part out when discussing him.

 

you mean, fell down like a cat.

 

Stewart believes that Tony Tomphson is the most dangerous potential oponent for Wlad after Peter and Haye.

What are your thoughts on this?

 

Liston won at least 9 out of 12 rounds according to all 3 judges and most newspapers/experts sitting at ringside. If thats what you call alot of issues, then it appears were nitpickin at its finest. its like saying trevor berbick posed a stylistic problem to larry holmes.


Folley has equal movement to machen, except better jab and better skills and liston blew him away in 3. it took someone with the movement leg speed and size of cassius clay to beat him. no fighter other than clay in history is like that.

even with the all the low blows newspapers and all 3 judges had liston winning by at least 3 points.

 

you been watching way too much ali vs williams. maybe ill pop in holmes vs ali to get a glimpse of what ali was like in his prime.

 

Lets be real.........was liston in his mid twenties ever blown away in 2 rounds by a 37 year old unrated fighter? was liston by his 25th professional fight knocked out by a journeyman with 1 round to go in the fight? did liston in his late 20s at his peak ever panic 4 rounds into a fight he was controlling and get knocked out by a unrated fighter at the time?

 

[/quote=janitor]
Rating Liston mainly on the Ali fights would be a bit like rating Mike Tyson on the Douglas fight.

He didn't bring his whole game that night (his fault of course) and boy did he pick the worong man to take lightly.

[/quote]

I'm not rating Liston on the Ali and Machen fights only. We were discussing on how Liston cut off the ring, and i brought up these fights because here is where he needed it and didn't do it.

"Cutting the ring off against a static target" is like saying someone catching up with Butterbean's movement. No such thing.

Well, you made the claim Liston was much more accurate, so i compared how they both performed against defensive masters, and Klitschko has a huge edge there.

 

The saddest part is, these gimps are convinced they're involved in some sort of intelligent, groundbreaking 'debate' - they use 'facts' you know?


Vitali Klitschko and Sonny Liston were never convicted of steroid use during their professional careers, therefore the chances of them being juicers is about the same. See what Chris Pontius did there? He gave a well-reasoned opinion backed by a FACT!!! See the way he used that fact? Well informed, reasonable poster, he is.

 

You have too look at the whole picture though. you failed to mention zora folley who was arguebably more of a defensive master than machen, and liston blew folley away in 3. He took folley apart worse than wlad took apart bryd.


Also I do not know why were argueing who performed better vs defense. neither wlad or liston are pure defensive oriented fighters. they are more offensive. wlad has shown more susceptibility to certain styles as seen by his 3 losses to mediocre fighters near his prime.

 

Fact. Williams was KO'd by Satterfield, a 174 lb'er who KO'd less than half of his opponents. Sonny Jones KD'd him twice. He was taken the distance with marginal, less than mediocre fighters. He couldn't take out Frankie Daniels, though Daniels was KO'd by middleweights and 11 times in his career failed to hear the final bell. Sonny Moore a .500 figher when they met, KO'd 11 times, lasted the 10 with "Big Cat". I could go on and on...

And spare me the "he carried a bullet in his shoulder" crap. So did Monzon, although Monzon was actually good before he was shot.

 

Quote me where i said their chances are the same? I guess i really struck a nerve because you freak out everytime.