Wladimir Klitschko Retires - Where Does He Rank ?

I find it remarkable how people are suddenly overrating Wlad.

I mean I like Wlad, of all the heavyweights in recent history, I'd probably rather sit down and have a few beers with Wlad than anyone else.

But this glorification of him recently and giving him a pat on the back for getting knocked out by a novice... it's like congratulating the kid who comes last at the school egg and spoon race. It's patronising.

 

Wlad ruled not one era, but at least 3 Eras. All the other Champions fought successful for one era (3 Till 5 years). Wlad was so good, that very good fighters looked poor. Thats the Problem for a lot of people. You cant Rule for ten years of you average. The First era was his First upcoming and his First title reign. He beat a Close to Prime Schulz (B), Prime byrd (A+), Prime mccline (B+), Prime Jefferson (C), past Prime Botha ( A-, Not Shot), Shot Mercer (A-), Prime shufford (C), Prime Barett (B) and lost to Sanders (B+). At the same time he didnt fought Lewis, Holyfield (past Prime), tyson (Shot) and Tua (Prime). Thats an ok run.
Then he started His second reign where he beat a lot of quality fighters who could have been good Champions without wlad. He was so dominant that the other quality fighters looked average and a lot of guys dont understand this.

He beat a Prime Peter (A- Fighter), Prime byrd (a+), past Prime rahman (B+), prime Brock (B+), prime ibragimov (A), prime Thompson (A+ , stylistic Nightmare for almost everyone in history), Prime chagaev (A-), Prime Austin (C), past Prime Peter (B), Prime Chambers (B+), Prime Haye (A+), wach (C), pianeta (D), past Prime Thompson (A-), prime povetkin (A+), prime lepai (D), prime pulev (A-), prime Jennings (B+), past Prime Brewster (A) and lost to Prime Brewster (A), Prime tyson fury (A+) and pre Prime Joshua (A+)

So wlad Beat more than one era (consists of 6 fights (3 years).

He dominated 3 eras (18 good wins) and lost to the 4th era with two great Talents in fury and Joshua.

So you have to take this in Account. He fought a lot of unbeaten Prime A fighters and beat clearly almost everyone (by KO) he is clearly top 5 of all time.

Hail to the king.

1. Ali
2. Lewis
3. Wlad
4. Holmes
5. Holyfield

 

I know, right??

People tried the same crap with Ali, making out like he was somebody after losing to professional nobody Berbick in his last fight.

And what about Louis getting knocked clean out of the ring by that little Italian dude? Way to prove you're an ATG, Louis - NOT!

There's also the classics of Lewis unconscious after Rahman and McCall had wiped the floor with him, and ol' Foreman meeting God after whatsisname whooped him and and ... and well, we're not going to stand for this nonsense here.

I demand a 250lb ripped champion with a 70-0 record and a 90% KO rate and a granite chin and a moustache like Don Frye's.

Anything less doesn't deserve to be Top 10.

 

Mike Tyson had been fighting for about as long as AJ had when he knocked Holmes out. I guess Holmes also got smoked by a novice and deserves the egg and spoon award, right?

 

Very funny.

I've never watched Ali's defeats at the end, I never will, I've inadvertently seen the odd clip but that is it. There is nothing I can get out of watching a legend carrying on for too long and taking a sad beating. But clearly the difference here, is Ali was getting a pat on the back for an astonishing career, which he recorded 9 wins against genuine greats (Sonny Liston x2, Floyd Patterson x2, Joe Frazier x2, Foreman x1, Norton x2). No one else actually comes close.

Lennox Lewis, he certainly never got a pat on the back for losing, he's lucky if he gets a pat on the back around here for having the 2nd most impressive resume in HW history. Likewise, Joe Louis, no one gives him a pat on the back for losing against that "little Italian dude", as you put it.

But for Wlad, all bets are off, people are even saying it was a great way to end his career! Wtf! These are people who actually like him!!

 

^^^^^^^^^^

This content is protected

This content is protected

 

So you're saying that Ali, losing at the end of a shorter career with less fights than Wlad to a nobody, is excusable - fine, even - but Wlad losing by a hair's breadth to the likely future united champion in AJ in a thriller of a fight is somehow sad? I'm genuinely confused.

All I can say is that Wlad was so dominant for so long, that people don't actually realise just how damned good he was.

 

Wow, Dino's really busting out the vitamins today!

Look, he found a video of some people laughing!

What's next? Card tricks?

 

Spot on with that second paragraph

 

I never said that. Ali can fall back onto all those great wars he had, all those wins he recorded against beasts. this despite having the best years being taken from him. No one looks back at his career and talks about his defeats at the end and cite them as a reason for his greatness. No one says "oh didn't he perform well when he lost to Larry Holmes or Trevor Berbick". The reason? Because that wasn't what defined his greatness.

But with Wlad, it is a very different story, being knocked out by AJ is actually being spinned into a positive. The reason? Because Wlad's career has little else to fall back on. Probably his best win was against Haye, in a very close contest in his own back yard. I'd have more respect for Wlad if he'd at least fought him again, maybe could have made a trilogy out of that, because that was really the only genuine challenge out there for him for a few years.

But he'd rather go back to fighting Dave the plumber, or Carlos the road sweeper on Eurosport.

And AJ hasn't proved himself yet either, not by a long shot, so far he has beaten a 'has been' who had already lost his belts, and another nobody who fluked the belt because his opponent got an ACL injury.

I like AJ and Wlad as people, but I can't sit here in good conscience and get carried away by their achievements.

 

Tripolied!

 

Liston was the dominant heavyweight from 1960 to 1964.

You had Lennox Lewis on the list. He did exactly that.

 

Where do you rate Joe Louis ?
Wlad's longevity is that level.

 

Ken Norton was a beast! He beat Ali!
Ali was a beast! He beat Foreman!
Foreman was a beast! He beat Norton!
Frazier was a beast! He beat Ali!

... but what it really comes down to is that it was a competitive era between 4-5 top guys where Ali squeaked ahead.

Yeah, they were good. Were they dramatically better than the competition during Wlad's reign? I don't think so. Wlad has the largest collection of undefeated fighters' scalps in HW history hanging from his belt. Maybe having close wars enhances some fighters in people's eyes. To me it shows that they are closely matched.

I'm afraid that a HW fighter over 40, fighting and damn near beating an 18-0 18ko boxer that is likely the future of boxing, IS a positive.

Do you live close to Dinovelvet? I'm trying to make sense of this.

Wlad mopped the floor with Haye, who looked completely outclassed. But don't take my word:

"Wladimir Klitschko scored a one-sided twelve round unanimous decision over cautious WBA champion David Haye. Haye stayed mostly on the outside, occasionally jumping in with single shots while Klitschko pressed the action and was busier in every round, out-landing his opponent (by Compubox) 11 of the 12 rounds. Klitschko was deducted a point by Geno Rodriguez for pushing down Haye in round eight, Rodriguez gave Haye a count after he went down in the eleventh."

http://boxrec.com/media/index.php?title=Fight:1591605

What do you have against David Haye? He owes you money?

Povetkin, Pulev, Wach, AJ etc qualify as a harder workout than Haye.

 

I'm not sure why FOTY is such a great benchmark of greatness, since it's highly up to chance and usually comes with scoring an upset/spectacular knockout. I'd rather go by Ring Rankings: Wlad was in the top10 for 17 years; Holmes for 11.

Yes, Holmes-Norton was a great fight. Very close, too, despite Norton being on the way out, and would go on to be stopped twice before retiring. The Shavers fights were very nice, too. The Cooney one is my favorite actually. Very disciplined. If only he would've fought the likes of Page, Dokes, Coetzee, Thomas, Norton rematch, Witherspoon rematch, Weaver rematch (not in 2000), Williams rematch. Even just a few of those, instead of LeDoux or Zanon. I think he would've beaten most of them, securing a place in the top3 of all time. But unfortunately, he never proved it.

You can call Wlad a cheater, that's fine. What about Holyfield's headbutts? Ali's holding? Foreman's pushing? Lewis' holding and hitting? Frazier's hip punching? Holmes' thumbing? Marciano's low blows and elbows? Tyson's dirty tricks? I don't condone it, but great fighters always look for that edge; they all "cheat" if that's how you see it.

Alright, enough troll feeding for today.