Wladimir Klitschko-Ruslan Chagaev question...

Chagaev had a fight this year, and was in gym for several weeks in perpetration for Valuev. No-- I do not think Chagaev will be rusty.

Let us not confuse ring rust with how this fight might be fought, or a good or bad performance. I've seen active fighters look rusty, and relatively in-active fighters look sharp. So have you. In Chagaev case he was active and looked rusty vs Virchis. I explain why later...

If Wlad simply dominates Chagaev with his jab and right from a distance, it will not be rust on Chagaev's part. Moreover it will be Wlad using his physical advantages to the max. There a huge difference here, and we see it in almost all of Wlad's fights.

Chagaev beat Valuev with speed, savvy, and countering off the ropes. Wlad is much harder to counter. You also ignored my point that Chagaev was preparing to fight a tall fighter in Valuev. Wlad was preparing to fight a speedy right hand puncher, not a stocky southpaw who likes to counter. The advantage in preparation on taking a fight on short notice is Chagaev's.

If Chagaev is at his fighting weight with two gym preperations for two fights in less than six months, ring rust or age will not be the main reasons why he lost. If you read my previous posts, I did not prop Chagaev up to make Wlad look better. In fact said I think Chagaev is shorter, and has less reach than his listed tale of the tape. I also said he doesn't have a good slip and duck defense ( though he defense is solid ) and lacks dynamic feet to quickly get in and out. Re-read my initial posts.

I expalined why Chagaev did not press it vs Skelton, and why Rogan did. Sytle, circumstance, and what was at steak had a lot to do with how Chageav and Rogan fought the final rounds vs Skelton. Do you agree?. Yes, fatugie was a factor for Chageav, but Skelton is a mauling type.

I would not use the Skelton fight as a benchmark for Wlad. Better fights to look at are Valuev, and Virchis. Chagaev at his best edged Valuev. Wlad is far better. If its a points decision, its Wlad all the way.

Chagaev did not look great vs Virchis. In this fight he was active leading up to the match. As I said before active and in-active does not guarantee performance. The story of the fight is both men respected each others power. The result was a tactical stinker. Neither fighter was rusty, though you might think they were if they had only fought once in 18 months.

 

You mean WLAD will put some serious distance between him and the field. Its not like Vitali is fighting Chagaev too. Vitali is old and overrated. Wlad, if he beats Chagaev, will prove himself head and shoulders above his brother.

 

No I mean what I said. Vitali has tired to make fights before with Valuev and Chagaev. They had no interest. I think Chagaev has a better chance vs Wlad, because here the puncher's chance comes into play.

Though Vitlai may be up there in age, he is still very dominant in the ring. Who looked better vs Peter, Wlad or Vitali? Who do you think is better between Gomez and Thompson? I would lean toward Gomez as he hits harder, and is quicker.

 

Chagaev looks very moderate to me ,I think there is a clear distance between the Klit bros and the rest of the field.

Wlad is the more talented ,whilst Vitali is the more durable imo.
But the division is very underwhelming .

 

McGrain,

We are not going to agree here. Chagaev has been active in less than six months, and in the gym a few times. Most champions wait longer than this between title fights.

I'm not going to accuse you of player hating here, but I do have a question for you. If Chagaev is rusty in your mind, then do you think Wlad if he wins deserves a big * next the fight because he defeated a rusty Chagaev? It seems like you are inserting a built in excuse for Chagaev ( that he was too rusty ) if Wlad simply defeats him in his typical fashion.

I think Wlad should get a lot of credit for taking a title unification fight vs the #3 ring rated guy on less than a month's notice. And if he wins, this is a key fight for his legacy.

 

Then we agree that if Wlad wins, the distance between the Klitschko's and the filed will be even greater. I do think Chagaev is the clear cut #3 man now. He is un-defeated, and has wins over top ten guys in Valuev, Ruiz, and Virchis.

I also think Chagaev is a little better than Povetkin, Dimitrenko, Haye, or anyone else not named Klitschko in the top ten.

 

I agree for the most part. David Haye may yet prove to be the best heavyweight out there, but we need to see more of him before we can claim this. He has not yet beaten a top flight man in the division. Chagaev as you say, is unbeaten and has proven himself against some of the largest heavyweights of all time ( though Valuev basically sucks. )

I don't think it will happen, but if I had my pick, I would probably rather see Chagaev pull off an upset than to see Wlad take it. For whatever its worth, he's a bit younger than both Wlad and Vitali. There is also the certain appeal of having a unified champion who is still unbeaten as opposed to having two top heavyweights with combined losses to Corrie Sanders, Chris Byrd, Ross Purity, Lamon Brewster and an old Lewis. The other problem with Wlad beating Chagaev and Vitali beating Haye ( if the fight comes off, ) is that if the Klit bros clean out the division, we well never see a unification between the two best heavyweights. This is why I think a Chagaev upset might be beneficial to the sport....

 

Got to agree with McGrain in this argument.

Arguing that Ruslan is going to be at his best in this one is stretching it, considering in his last two outing he looked like crap AND has only fight twice in the previous 26 months.

No matter how much you spar or how much gym work you do, not having actual fights makes you rusty.

Had Chagaev destroyed Skelton and Drummond, than it would point to this fight being competitive. But he struggled to wins in each. Ruslan shouldn't of taken this fight without another tuneup or two against quality opposition to regain some of his old form.

 

You have to give Vitali some credit though. As bad as Sam Peter and Gomez are, for a 37 year old man to come out of a four year layoff after nursing injuries forever, and win a world title, then defend it, is pretty impressive. I think Vitali is still a force in the division.. Wlad is number one right now, but I think its fair to say that Vitali is number 2. Haye has not done anything at heavyweight yet to warrant being rated above either, and Chagaev has been too inactive in the past year, along with haven't scoring any real decisive wins in a long time.

 

I concur.

I respect Chavaev's ability to remain undefeated while facing a division full of super heavyweights. But, if we're honest however, he hasn't scored a truly decisive win in years, and fighting once annually does not warrant making him a strong favorite.

 

Where did I say Chagaev was going to be at his absolute best here? My point was Chagaev fought four months ago, and has been through two camps in less than a year leading up to this fight. The most recent camp was for a world title fight, so you know Chagaev put in a lot of work. Chagaev is also only 30. He remains un-defeated. He is the #3 ranked heavyweight in the world. He fought four months ago. This to me is not a rusty or old fighter.

If Chagaev had trouble with Skelton ( who was 21-1 with wins over Williams and Sprott ), or then un-defeated Drummond it does not mean he is shot. Who looked good vs Skelton prior to him facing Chagaev? No one.

As I pointed out, Chagaev did not look good vs Virchis either and he had five fights in less than a year, plus a string of good performances leading up to the Virchis fight!

Maybe the truth is Chagaev has looked " rusty " before in fights where he was most certainly active. I think this is the best conclusion.

It seems that McGrain has made up his mind ( for now ) that Chagaev is rusty, hence Wlad beating him won’t mean as much.

He then says he will call the fight as he sees it. Ok, just remember in Chagaev's best performance, he barely edged Ruiz and Valuev by 7-5. Also, it should be noted that after a very good performance vs Valuev, Chagaev had an off night less than 6 months later vs Skelton.

I don't think Chageav will win more than four rounds vs Wlad, so if Wlad wins say 8-4 or 9-3, don't tell me Chagaev was rusty. Simply say Chagaev could not get past Wlad's long-range arsenal, and lacked elite level defense and quick feet to get in and out.

I will give Chagaev a punchers chance, which is magnified by his southpaw standce and over all skills. Say a 3-1 underdog.

My point is Chagaev has been off and on before thought his career, and is likely going to be 1 ) in shape, and 2 ) highly motivated to win on June 20th. That is enough for me.

 

Well, I have been listening to you, for whatever its worth. And, lets praye that Chagaev pulls out a miracle. I think it would be good for the division.