Wladimir klitschko surpasses HW greats if...

This is stupid.

So you think that Wlad just gets into the top 5 if he beats Joe Louis' record of title defenses?

What's wrong with you?

If he does do that, he should be top 5 p4p of all-time, not a top 5 HW.

He would easily be the #1 HW of All-Time if he broke a record that has been around for the entire history of boxing. On top of breaking that record, he would have broken JCC record of most title bout wins (31).

Wladimir Klitschko would be the #1 HW unanimously. His competition is much better than Joe Louis as well.

Beat several HW champions.

Beat the most Olympic medalists.

Beat the most undefeated fighters.

More wins and less losses than almost all HW champs.

Rarely loses a round.

Longest time as HW champ without getting knocked down.

Avoids no one.

Has beaten more styles than any other HW ever.

Yadda, yadda, yadda

 

He knocked him down several times.

This is a fight. Wlad beat up on him.

AP is a great HW BTW.

 

I hear a glass house cracking.

Yup.

I am smarter than you. Apparently that is a problem.

As explained, not really. Boxing greatness is subjective. Wlad does not have the opponents.

But again, he did not do it against Joe Frazier, George Foreman, Sonny Liston, Ken Norton, and Floyd Patterson.

It would not be close to unanimous.

He beat no HW champions at all. He beat titleists.

Which is an interesting footnote, but not relevent to professional boxing.

But again, it is none of them are exactly beating George Foreman.

But the wins aren't particualrly impressive and the losses are pretty brutal.

The competition again.

He also has been knocked down something like twelve times early in his carreer.

Fair play on that. The main reason I have him above Holmes is because Holmes openly ducked fighters.

No he hasn't.

Whatever. Congratulations- I am a fan of the man and you have me making his detractors arguments.

I will repeat: I have him at about seven and if he breaks Louis' record, I will rank him somewhere in the top five.

 

I have him top five now, definitely. I can't see how else you can rank a man who has KO'd the lions share of his opponents, ducked nobody and has only 3 losses on his resume after dominating over a decade in emphatic fashion. I mean, he is practically 40 and there's probably not a boxer out there that people will say has a better than 50% chance of beating him.

I also think that his opposition isn't as awful as people say. There are a LOT of 0's taken, and fighters with only a single loss that he dominated. He's beaten a smorgasbord of styles and some BIG men. Just because Americans aren't as excited about this era as, say, the 70's and 80's, doesn't necessarily mean it's that much worse. Some make the argument that the asvent of the eastern Europeans have elevated the game to a new level.

The deciding factor, IMHO, will be what his victims go on to do. For example - if Jennings goes on to have a great career, become a world champ and defend successfully a dozen times, that sort of this HAS to elevate Wlad's standing.

Nice discussion so far, gents.

 

Wow!

I like Wlad a lot, but you are being blinded by statistics.

As I always say - statistics don't allow for circumstances.

If Wlad breaks Louis' record he would be the number 1 HW of all time?

He'd be in the P4P top 5 of ALL TIME??

In the words of John McEnroe "YOU CANNOT BE SERIOUS!?"

This era of HW's is weak, and to date, his biggest wins have been against Byrd, Haye and Potvetkin. Now go and objectively look at their abilities and resumes, and see where you'd rank them.

Wlad's longevity is absolutely outstanding, and it deserves an enormous amount of respect. But there's an awful lot of criteria to meet before you can objectively rank a guy.

Wlad comes absolutely nowhere near the best 5 fighters of all time. Neither on resume or talent.

 

Wlad's best wins are Haye, Byrd and Potvetkin.

Calm down.

Let's see how it all unfolds.

As yet, Fury hasn't done anything. His biggest win was against Chisora.

Wilder has only beaten Stiverne, who's beaten who exactly? Arreola for the vacant belt.

Wlad's statistics and longevity are great. But to say that Ali's resume is nothing in comparison, is ridiculous.

 

Well stated.

I think alont wth Byrd, Haye, and Povetkin also Chageav, who beat almost the same big names as Haye (Valuev and Ruiz). Haye has his crusier work, but Chagaev has beaten a few more notable heavies. Chag also does not have am embarrasing loss on his record.

To me, Sultan Ibragmimov also noses into this first tier category, though his career is a bit of an incomplete.

 

:good

 

Good points regarding Ruslan. He's slipped under the radar in the last few years.

:good

 

Hahaha just was thinking the same :good

atsch

 

Wlad will never reach legendary status.

 

Except he already has.

 

No he hasn't. He's become a great fighter, but he's not a legend.

 

Where do you rank Joe Louis?