Wladimir Klitschko vs Ali

Discussion in 'World Boxing Forum' started by Toney F*** U, Mar 29, 2021.

  1. Surrix

    Surrix Well-Known Member Full Member

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    Maybe. He is honoured also for 45 y.o old Moore beating who then had more than 200 pro fights under belt and was small for modern CW, not alone HW and he had been dropped down by approx 20 lbs lighter boxer than he was.

    Prime Lewis and Vlad, Witaly, Fury, A.J for sure hits harder than Notron and Norton beated him up, broken his chin because he had more skills than Foreman and Shavers or Frazier.

    lol, belts and pro boxing cards, Ali was not better boxer than Norton not alone Vitali, Lewis, Wlad or prime Tyson.
     
  2. Loudon

    Loudon Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Ali had a great chin and the heart of a lion.

    He jumped straight back up against Cooper and Frazier, and like you’ve noted, he fought on against Norton despite having a broken jaw.

    The results of the fights with Ali, Frazier, Foreman and Norton aren’t really that relevant. Those matches played out the way they did due to how they all matched up stylistically. Also, most people would have liked to have seen Ali retire before his final fight against Norton.

    Regarding Wlad being bigger than Norton, yes. But we’re looking here at a prime for prime fight. Otherwise you could just list many boxers who were as big as Norton and of equal or better ability, before predicting that they too would also have beaten Ali.

    Regarding Ali rematching Foreman, he could never have replicated that result. And I think that he knew that. Even with his back to the ropes he took huge punishment. And he psyched out a young version of George in the heat and humidity of Zaire. It’s the only way that he could win, as he knew that he didn’t have the stamina to fight him in the centre of the ring. It was an incredible master plan but one that was also extremely dangerous. If a rematch had occurred, he could never have done the same thing. Foreman would obviously have gone back in with a different game plan. It’s an absolute blessing that it didn’t happen. Also, Ali was faded then, and I think that George would have hurt him even worse than what Frazier did in Manila.
     
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  3. Surrix

    Surrix Well-Known Member Full Member

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    and Lewis for example too and he too had more muscle and skeleton mass that Norton who had beated Ali and Ali get questionable " win " in 1 fight vs Norton.
    Maybe King? Ali was ****y and did not looked smart at all in the middle and end of 70 ies.


    Yeah. Foreman was smart.
    Frazier and Shavers had turned him into walking boxing corpse with delayed effect who he was in 1980 th.
    Foreman maybe had turned him into a paraplegic if they had fought again.
     
    Last edited: Apr 7, 2021
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  4. Surrix

    Surrix Well-Known Member Full Member

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    I do not have reason why he continued to fight after Foreman in Zaire. If he quit then, most likely he today had been pretty fresh and alive.
     
  5. Loudon

    Loudon Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    I honestly don’t think that Wlad would have gone at him aggressively with power. I think that he’d have boxed very cautiously and gone feint for feint with him.

    Both Wlad and Manny would have had huge respect for Ali.

    Ali would also have had respect for Wlad.

    I think this would have been one of those dream match ups that in reality would have been rather lacklustre.
     
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  6. BCS8

    BCS8 Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Agree completely. Probably quite boring.

    Where Wlad's power comes into it is if Ali tries to make a fight of it. Wlad's right hand down the pipe is a persuasive argument.

    I personally think they dance around for 12 rounds, and it goes to points. I'm of the opinion that Wlad's jab will scrape him ahead; other folks might fancy Ali's speed to negate it.
     
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  7. Loudon

    Loudon Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Again, we’re supposed to be looking at prime for prime fights here.

    It’s okay predicting that all of these fighters would have stopped him, but it would have been extremely difficult, as he’d have presented them all with such an elusive target.

    Lewis couldn’t knock out Mercer.

    Vitali couldn’t knock out Byrd.

    Wlad couldn’t knock out Haye.

    They are just three examples from many others.

    Regarding AJ, IMHO, he’s done nothing to have been favoured over a prime version of Ali.
     
  8. Surrix

    Surrix Well-Known Member Full Member

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    Yes but I do not rate his power lower than Wlad or Vitali, he did had power if he landed and he like Wlad and Vitali in his prime looked so muscular and athletic, very large and with low fat. I do not rate his power as low.
    Didn't had landed.

    Imagine Norton in 240 lbs or larger vs Ali not small HW Norton?
     
  9. Loudon

    Loudon Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    You are over simplifying things.

    It doesn’t matter if those guys hit harder than guys who Ali lost to and struggled with.

    Again, the most important thing is how they matched up stylistically.

    That is ALWAYS the most important thing.

    Ali was a better fighter than Ken Norton. But Norton really won the series in many peoples opinion, as Ali was past his best by then, and especially during their final fight in 1976.
     
    Last edited: Apr 7, 2021
  10. Surrix

    Surrix Well-Known Member Full Member

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    Cos he should had been retired after Zaire fight.
    Like Wlad was too old even before Pulev fight but he continued.
    Combat sport is young man's game.
     
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  11. Loudon

    Loudon Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    I understand. But us fans know that it’s not as simple as saying:

    Norton beat Ali, Lewis was bigger and better than Norton, therefore Lewis would definitely have beaten Ali.

    It’s never that simple.

    Of course, Lewis could have beaten Ali. And that’s because he was an ATG HW. But you can’t just predict a win because he was bigger and better than a guy who Ali struggled with and lost to.

    Again, the outcome of a fight is always based on how they’d have matched up stylistically.
     
  12. Loudon

    Loudon Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    I think he’d have had a lot of trouble landing his jab on such an elusive target, even with his reach advantage. I don’t think his feet were fast enough.
     
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  13. Surrix

    Surrix Well-Known Member Full Member

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    Not so deeply. I had fought with guys I'm not able to win on points and only way to win was to achieve stoppage. be this corner, ref or too much times guy down or can't start next round in time.
    Sometimes I had managed to do this and sometimes no. Life is life.
     
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  14. Loudon

    Loudon Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    This is my point.

    Lewis had huge power but wasn’t able to knock out Mercer. Which means that you can’t just assume that modern HW’s with huge power would have knocked Ali out.

    Again, it would all have come down to styles.
     
  15. Loudon

    Loudon Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    That’s very interesting.

    Again, it mostly comes down to styles.

    I could list you a huge list of HW’s who were as good as, or better than Ken Norton. But it doesn’t mean that they’d all have beaten Ali, just on the grounds that Norton did.