Wladimir Klitschko vs Ali

The Jeep pull is impressive. Foreman was indeed an extremely powerful man.

However, that 'cow' could never ever have weighed 1200 lbs. Massive strongmen and powerlifters would struggle to support that weight on their shoulders, and this is a live animal.

 

Nobody can dispute Wlad’s power. Of course he was more powerful than Frazier. But of course, it always comes down to how they’d have matched up stylistically.

Wlad might have hammered Frazier. But Frazier could get really close to Ali and fight him on the inside. But I don’t think that Wlad could have gotten that close. I don’t see how he’d have landed his jab from the distance he fought at, and from a different angle due to him being taller. I think Ali could have evaded it.

I think an earlier version of Wlad would have given Ali an extremely tough fight. But I think that a prime and cautious Wlad would have gone feint for feint with Ali, without wanting to fully commit himself. I can actually envisage a very boring fight with little action.

Ali clinched a lot with Frazier, but I honestly can’t envisage a scenario where he’d continually have found himself in clinches with Wlad. Ali wouldn’t have been in range like Povetkin was.

 

I wouldn’t say that he had a particular weakness to them. They were just great punches. Wlad also had a great left hook. But it would have been very difficult for Wlad to have landed a clean left hook on Ali. It would have been much more difficult to execute than it was for Cooper and Frazier, who were smalller and faster, and who were able to whip them in fast, inside of Ali’s range from a different angle.

 

Wlad would have found it extremely difficult to have landed that left hook on such an elusive target.

 

Evander wouldn’t have been food for Wlad. And my point, was that people like to portray Ali as a CW, which is ridiculous. People just say that to try and boost their argument.

Nobody is disputing Wlad’s physical prowess. But Ali was significantly faster of hand and foot, and he’d have provided Wlad with a very elusive target.

Why didn’t Wlad suffocate Haye into submission, after Haye had disrespected his family?

Monstrous power is no good if you can’t land it or if you’re not committed into trying to land it.

Fury feinted him for 11 rounds where he couldn’t and wouldn’t let his hands go. Yet he fought Joshua completely different where he was much more aggressive. And that is all due to styles. Of course, Fury was significantly bigger than Ali. But the point is, Wlad would have needed the time and the confidence to have set himself. And Ali would have been up on his toes, circling, feinting, and jumping in and out of range. It wouldn’t have been an easy fight for Wlad, just because he was bigger and more powerful.

 

Foreman was renowned for his great strength.

 

Ali would never have been as close to Wlad’s range as what Povetkin was.

Povetkin offered little movement and was there to be mauled.

Ali’s foot speed and great reflexes would have made him a much more elusive target.

 

No version of Valuev would have beaten Ali up.

 

Maybe not I just googled weight of a cow and it came up with around 1200lbs , but it’s got to be somewhere between 800-1200 as dead hanging carcass is around 750lbs either way still massively impressive.

 

I know that you think no one from modern boxers might had won vs Ali.

Ali had defeated a lot boxers smaller than he. This is correct and he never had in the ring someone like Valuev and Wlad, Vitaly, Lewis etc modern boxers like Fury and A.J.

You really also overestimate Ali power and yeah, he by modern criteria is CW boxer.
BoxRec: Bout

not well known boxer, 12 round fight Ali via UD.

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BoxRec: Bout

15 rounds needed to TKO a boxer with 31-9-2 pro record.
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BoxRec: Bout

boxer with pro record 34-11-2 in a title fight vs Ali.

Damn and Ali won this by decision. 15 round fight vs boxer with 11 lost fights in resume.



These small boxers he was not capable to finish in distance.
You might argue that he will finish large giants in Fury, A.J, Valuev, Vitaly, Wlad, Lewis?

 

It has zero relevance to this discussion.

How many left hooks did Wlad land on Haye and Fury?

You have to look specifically at how Ali-Wlad would have matched up stylistically.

Wlad might have obliterated a guy like Joe Frazier. But he could never have replicated the same strategy.

Guys like Frazier and Cooper were small and fast. They could get up close to Ali and inside of his range, where they were able to whip in extremely fast hooks that Ali couldn’t evade.

Wlad was very fast for his size, but not as fast as what they were. His feet weren’t as quick. He could never have landed his left hook in the same way that Frazier and Cooper did. And that’s because he was significantly taller. Which means that any left hook that Wlad threw, would have been coming in at a different pace, from a further distance away and from a completely different angle. You’ve got to look at this scientifically. Guys like Cooper and Frazier didn’t need much space, where they were able to step in and throw their hook upwards. But Joe Frazier was 5’10, whereas Wlad is 6’6. If you go and watch Frazier knock down Ali, you’ll see that it wouldn’t have been possible for Wlad to have landed that same shot. Wlad would have needed more time, more space, and if Ali hadn’t have been already hurt and slumped forward, he’d not have been punching in the same upward direction. It would just have been a different type of shot entirely. And I don’t think he’d have gotten close enough to Ali in order to have landed it.

I think that Wlad would have found it extremely difficult to have timed Ali and knocked him out with a left hook. It’s difficult for bigger guys to land hooks on smaller guys. It affects their timing and their technique.

 

I’ve never said that a modern fighter couldn’t have beaten Ali, nor have I implied that he was unbeatable, even in his prime.

You are the one who has been incredibly ignorant, trying to claim that Valuev would have beaten Ali based upon his size. It’s absolutely laughable.

What difference does it make if Ali never fought a guy of Valuev’s exact size? We have access to most of Ali’s fights throughout his career, which showed us his great attributes. We also have access to many of Valuev’s fights. We know who he fought. We know how he fought. We know that his huge size affected his mobility. Based on the available evidence, we can make an educated guess on how their styles would have meshed together. Valuev would have found it incredibly difficult to have found success against a guy of Ali’s size, speed and skill set. Ali would have used his size against him, where he’d have evaded his slow, telegraphed shots. I think that it would been an easy fight to have predicted. Valuev was huge, but he was immobile and not particularly skilled.

You scoffed at the notion of a guy of Ali’s size beating Valuev, yet you forgot 2 very important factors:

1. You only focused on the difference in size, without looking at anything else.

2. You have ignored the fact that David Haye and Ruslan Chagaev beat Valuev, and that many people thought that a very faded version of Evander deserved a decision, as well as the fact that all 3 of those guys were of equal size to Ali.

Regarding your links, I’ve no idea why you’ve uploaded them. And I’ve never mentioned Ali’s power. And referring to Ali as a CW is just ignorant. The results against the fighters you’ve mentioned don’t help your argument for Valuev beating Ali. Results are mostly based upon how guys match up stylistically, as well as any other relevant factors, such as a fighter’s schedule and what their mindset at the time is etc. Ali went the distance many times. And when he was younger, he fought very often. Under different circumstances, some of his fights may have played out differently. Saying that he needed x amount of rounds to beat somebody doesn’t really mean much. A guy like Roy Jones could have had more knockouts had he have really gone out and pressed for them.

Regarding the larger opponents that you’ve mentioned, I wouldn’t have thought that Ali would have knocked them out. But he wouldn’t have needed to have definitely knocked them all out in order to have claimed victory. He was more than capable of beating them on a decision.

 

ofc, I think you more prefer western boxers.

Size does matters. No ONE had finished Valuev in distance. 53 fights. Both 2 fights he had lost were by decision.
Exactly because he is LARGE and size matters.