Wladimir Klitschko vs Joe Frazier -- you know this is gonna be divided.

Here is just one snippet off the internet. There are dozens:

Frazier was a hard hitter - in 1967 he fractured Canadian heavyweight George Chuvalo's orbital bone under his eye so badly that Chuvalo needed reconstructive surgery to correct the injury. Frazier was one of only two boxers to stop Chuvalo, with a fourth-round technical knockout. The other was George Foreman.

Chuvalo said in a YouTube interview that Frazier would chase current heavyweight contender Vladimir Klitchko “from the ring. He’s never met a relentless fighter like Joe.”

 

Chuvalos eye actually dropped into the crack that formed from that left hook by Frazier. If you watch the bout right after that hook Chuvalo cowers knowing the injury was a serious one.

 

I just went back to re listen to an interview with Chuvalo. He states that his eye ball actually fell through the floor of his optic bone once Frazier landed that last hook. If the fight was not stopped and Frazier was allowed to hit him again on that area more than likely he would have lost his vision in that eye and/ or the eye itself. The surgery Chuvalo had his eye was pulled from its socket, a plastic insert was placed where I assume the bone once was and then the eye put back in place. George said that the doctors involved did not want him to fight again the injury was so serious.

 

TBH this means Jack Sh* t to me.What Frazier possessed was the ability to throw for 15rds.

 

Why are you thanking me?

 

The underlined would seem to be at odds with your previous statement .

" Frazier broke Chuvalos eye socket to pieces with one left hook"

 

Who cares about semantics. The fact is Frazier stopped the tough as nails Chuvalo. Cheekbone or eye socket, it doesn't matter. He broke SOMETHING in Chuvalo's face.

 

There is no argument on this,the difference of opinion between Perry and myself is the classification of Frazier as a puncher.Perry maintains he was an eliteATG puncher, I think he was a very good puncher but not an elite one. I hope this clarifies my position.?

 

Another nit picker. The injury was so bad the doctors put a plastic insert in place of the bone. Fraziers one left hook did this damage. He could hit a ton.

 

Shake ....you could not be more wrong. Punching very hard is a technique very few hwts are born with. The ability to seamlessly link the body from feet to legs to hips to ultimately the fist to produce a Ko blow. Certainly doing all this with speed will only help.

 

:goodFine points, and allow me to expand upon the more shallow talent pool angle:

I would argue that the talent pool of 200 pound talent and up is deeper now than it was in Mr. Frazier's day due to globalization and an active 200 pound Cruiserweight division, which couldn't exist in his day as a separate entity to the unlimited Heavyweight class. There weren't enough fighters for it. Take out anyone weighing 210 or less on fight night (common cutting territory for modern heavyweights to go down), rank who's left, and it's clear how much weaker the depth of the big man talent pool really was.

Today, the 200 lb Cruiserweight division cannibalizes the smaller fighters who fight the more aesthetically pleasing fights many prefer to the average "super" heavyweight.

Mr. Marco Huck, for example, is bigger than most of Mr. Frazier's opponents and would carry a size advantage over Mr. Frazier himself. He's a fighter who would comfortably be a top 10 fighter in Mr. Frazier's (and today's) heavyweight era for a few years if he campaigned there full time. Undisputed champ? In all likelihood, no. But a depth-maker and credible fighter.

If Cruiserweight did not exist, the Heavyweight landscape would look noticeably deeper as top-level Cruiserweights tend to perform historically, at minimum, on a contender level at Heavyweight.

It's a huge reason why there's a dearth of easy-to-enjoy heavyweight s****s.

 

I also watched that interview.

Firstly.

You neglect to mention Chuvalo claimed he fought a named Archie Ray a month before Frazier, whom he knocked out with a left hook to the body. Again according to Chuvalo on the way down the guy " jack knifed his body and his head hit my eye on the way down and my eye started to swell " He claims he took medication called ornzimes after the fight.

Apparently ( again according to Chuvalo ) every time he got hit around the eye in the gym he could feel it swelling, but his trainer told him he had to keep sparring because it was Frazier he was fighting so sparring was necessary for the right preparation. Furthermore he claims both the trainer and his manager stopped him postponing the fight by appealing to his macho side.

Secondly.

He claimed he won the first 2 rounds, and in the 3rd got hit with a left hook that closed his eye, in the 3rd round, and thereafter he couldn't see properly. He claimed he was getting " hit for free for half a round in the fourth " due to not being able to see.

" Then I got hit again and I could feel my eye drop through the orbital floor. I turned away, and the ref could see I was in some discomfort and stopped the fight. Luckily he did because I would have lost the sight in that eye."

He then goes onto say a few days later he went to hospital in Toronto and an x ray showed his eye had gone through his optic floor, so they removed it and inserted plastic silicone in there and sewed him up.

Thirdly.

Lets assume the injury had nothing to do with Archie Ray hitting his eye with his head on the way down, and you are right it was caused by either one or perhaps two of Frazier's punches.

Here is the choice of bones you are claiming proves Frazier's devastating punching power.

The inferior orbital neurovascular bundle (comprising the infraorbital nerve and artery) courses within the bony floor of the orbit; the roof of this infraorbital c**** is only 0.23mm thick, and the bone of the posterior medial orbital floor averages 0.37 mm thick. The thinnest guitar pick I can buy is .38 mill, and its like hitting the strings with a piece of paper.

So what the fukk must Norton's power come to then if he broke Ali's jaw which is a lot thicker than .23 of a mil, or .37 of a mil.

At least we have a viable reason why Frazier and Norton didn't fight rather than the old " We are best friends " chestnut.


Oh, I beg your pardon I forgot to post the most comical part.


Fractures of the orbital floor are common: it is estimated that about 10% of all facial fractures are isolated orbital wall fractures (the majority of these being the orbital floor), and that 30-40% of all facial fractures involve the orbit.:rofl:rofl:rofl

You would have done better to go along with my assumption that Frazier broke the sturdier cheek bone.

 

His one shot punching power was not shocking to the heavyweights who were his contemporaries he only kod two decent men one was a light heavy the other a former light heavy.