Wladimir Klitschko vs. Rocky Marciano

:rofl:rofl

 

And again, i can say that because Rocky was down on the cards against Walcott and nearly even with Charles in their first matches after the 12th, he proved to be highly incapable of handling a bigger, stronger and harder hitting boxer in Wlad.




Cross trainer asked whether Marciano would carry his power up against superheavyweights. I don't really question that so much, but what i do question, is how well he carries his punching power up to a 6'6 target. He's really going to have to take Wlad out of there with a handful of shots, because i honestly can't see him landing enough to wear Wlad down. Wlad's holding on the inside and oustanding outside-game will make it extremely difficult to do that.

Like Magoo said, Marciano is in another league greatness-wise, but might be out of his league in a head to head sense. Certainly, looking at the dimenions and knowing that Wlad carries his athletic ability unlike most superheavies, it's not really that fair a matchup.

 

Wlad's chin is glass, but Marciano cannot reach Wlad's chin............ Wlad sharp-shoots from outside and picks Rocco to pieces............ Rocco's a blood pulp after 8 rds....... Fight stopped.. Rocco needs a blood transfusion in order to remain alive......
:deal

MR.BILL

 

Rocky can reach it, all he needs to do is jump land the hook and Wlad is out.

 

I am coming to the conclusion that far too much is being made of the current genaration of 220 lb+ heavyweights as checkers of shins and far too many apologies are being made for those who crumble against them.

History seems to suggest that they do not represent the gold standard test of a chin that is often made out.

To give you just one example of this George Foreman was knocked out by Muhamad Ali and dropped by Jimmy Young neither of who were hard hitters but both of who had exelent speed and delivery. When he comes back in his 40s these so called heavyweight monsters of the 90s couldn't make a dent in his chin.

Speed and delivery beat size and power every day of the week and twice on Sundays.

I think that the shot that Walcott hit Marciano with would present a much stronger test of his chin than the slow predictable punches that the current crop of heavyweights throw. I think that it might well have been a more formidable missile than the shot that Hassim Ramhan used to put Lennox Lewis to sleep.

 

I don't know why so much is made of Marciano's height. Tyson at 5'11 was the same height as marciano and had no trouble landing on 6'6 fighters....David tua only 5'9 2" shorter, does anyone seriosely think he wouldn't be able to hit Wladimir? Now take Carmine Vingo for example. Good Prospect, of course nothing like wladimir. However he was 6'4. Is it a coincidence the most damage Rocky ever did to a fighters face happened to be 6'4? IMO, rocky like tyson felt very comfortable punching up with leverage, since he was so used to it most of his career. Johnny Skhor, a tough journeyman fighter in the Ross Purrity mold. 6'5 too. Skhor got beaten up so badly he never fought again..apparently Marciano crashed hooks and Suzy Q's on his jaw all night long. Now Skhor and Vingo do not compare to Wlad as fighters, but there Height is similiar. That is your question isnt it? If rocky can reach wladimirs chin? Honestly Chris, I think Charlie Goldman built Rocky's whole style on being able to fight taller bigger fighters. Thats why he told rocky "if your small, fight small" and developed him a crouch and taught him how to punch up with leverage. Now in retrospect, Marciano during his hey dey did not run into alot of taller bigger sluggers like Charlie Goldman probably thought he would...but the ones he did run into like 6'1-6'2 fighters Layne and Louis he Destroyed.


Wladimir on the otherhand never fought tyson or tua, Marcianos closest stylistic foes so we do not know how he would do. The closest thing Wladimir did fight to marciano in terms of Power, relentlessness, and durability....Lamon Brewster knocked him out! I know both you and I are big Wladdy fans....but lets face it. He has not proven to either of us yet he is capable of handily beating a relentless world class puncher, and until he does so I think it is unrealistic to pick him over an ATG heavyweigth puncher(Louis, dempsey, liston, foreman, marciano, frazier, tyson). I would be heavily inclined however to pick him over any Sub 200lb ATG "Boxer Stylist" who ever lived, and I think he could have even beaten Larry holmes and Jack Johnson the way he is fighting.

But thats just the thing. Wladimir has a weak enough chin and rocky has enough power that all he needs to do is land 1 or 2 good punches and wlad will crumble...then perhaps go into panic attack mode.

Just curious...do you think Jack Dempsey is out of Wladimir's league in a head to head sense? I happen to think out of all heavyweight champions, no one on film is more sucseptible to a STRAIGHT right hand than Jack Dempsey, and he showed durablility issues vs Firpo, Flynn, Sharkey, Tunney, and Carpentier. Yet I would be willing to bet you pick Dempsey over Wlad without a second thought.

The difference is Rocky WON those tests, where as Wladimir LOST his tests against relentless punchers. The fact Rocky never lost proves we do not know what it takes to beat him. Wlad on the otherhand, we KNOW what it takes to beat him.

 

I don't give a duck in a pond........ Marciano was not the animal Tyson of '86 thru '89 was............. Tyson had combos' with hand speed that blurred, along with wicked power........... Rocky Marciano would NOT do well with "Gifted" boxer / punchers who were 6' 3" to 6' 6" tall and 210 to 250 pounds or more........ SCREW VINGO!!!

MR.BILL

 

marciano would land enough punches to score a come from behind ko

 

Once D'Amato, Jimmy Jacobs and Kevin Rooney were either dead or fired, Mike Tyson began to decline pretty rapidly......... When Don King and Tyson's homies took control, Tyson was basically done........ BUT! Prior to 1990, Tyson was an animal......

MR.BILL

 

Yes we know he was an animal. Tyson would knockout any version of Foreman including that fat piece of crap version we saw in the 1990s.

 

I reserve Marciano of 1952. In a 12 round fight I'm more torn. Wlad stands a chance to jab clinch jab. The thing is though, Marciano is harder to hit with the jab than he appears to be. And he crouches low which will be an other disadvantage for Wlad. I think Suzie outline the fight rather perfectly, especially being specific on their strengths and weaknesses. In a 15 round fight I go with Marciano with much more confidence. In a 12 round fight I think it's tough to call. I'd expect Rocky to put even more pressure since its less rounds. I will say this... the 55 version of Marciano loses against Wlad. The 52-53/54 version would have a much better chance.

I'm going to go with Marciano here. His crouch puts Wlad out bad odds. And Wlad's attack is rather simplistic 1-2. He doesn't go risking and doesn't engage hugely. If he does, he is even more prone to panic. Wlad's weak chin and durability and disdain for pressure leave me with picking Marciano. I think Marciano stops him late or wins a decision. The thing is Marciano is much faster with than people believe around 52. Most are prone to his Charles and Moore fights. Marciano could snap some powerful quick combos. I think Wlad's height and inevitability to exchange near the corners would be disastrous for him. Walcott can pull it off with his defense and cutesy tricky style and even that was dangerous. He got nicked, but Wlad would got torn to the body and Marciano would go back to the head and pummel Wlad. I'm going with Rocky here. I also think Dempsey has a good chance here. While I think a fight with the other brother is another story. I really like Marciano's chin to hang in when he needs to. Wlad's best shot is a decision win. In 15 rounds he comes out a loser with his only shot at being a KO. Does he have the aggressiveness or confidence to do so? Doubtful.

 

Rocky Marciano would win, by knockout...in my opinion.

 

In the compliment giving mood again around you?

 

Klitschko fights these guys who dont even try to win and he makes it look a chore, or at least it's a chore for me to watch. I just find it hard to imagine him in with an intense fighter like Rocky Marciano.
And any time I hear that crap about tall fighters v. short fighters "he wont even be able to reach his chin" I know it's crap. Guys a foot shorter than Valuev find his chin often, and both Klitschko brothers have been hit by guys much shorter than them too. If Rocky was just a 5'10" plodder with no strategy, no greatness and no fire in his belly then maybe that would be a valid statement but that's not the case. When you put a great fighter like Rocky in the ring with anyone you better acknowledge that he will have his moments at some point of the fight, whoever he's fighting. The thing is, with Wladimir klitschko I think Rocky's moment would spell the beginning of the end.

 

Great post....of course another good example would be Henry Cooper almost KO'ing Ali whilst bigger, harder hitting guys couldn't put a dent in his chin.

As for old WALDO V Marciano, I've just got that image of WALDO turning his back on Sam Peter in my mind....I wonder what he'd do against Marciano's rough-housing? That youtube video of the boxer running across the ring and trying to jump over the top rope to escape springs instantly to mind.

Much as I hate all the Klit-lovers I'd actually give the guy a chance against guys that were content to just box, I give him next to no chance against relentless animals though, and that's what Marciano was. Rocky by KO, and I reckon it'd come quickly too - inside 3 rounds.