Wladimir Klitschko vs. Rocky Marciano

ht and wt of NFL teams

1950 Cleveland Browns starters

largest and heaviest

John Kissell 6' 3"--245 lbs
Len Ford 6' 4"--245 lbs
Lou Groza 6' 3"--240 lbs
Dub Jones 6' 4"--200 lbs

so no starter was more than 6' 4" (or anyone on the roster) or 245 lbs for a starter (reserve Chubby Grigg was 6' 2" and 295 lbs)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

2011 NY Giants starters

Kareem McKenzie 6' 6"--325 lbs
William Beatty 6' 6"--290 lbs
Chris Canty 6' 7"--285 lbs
Linval Joseph 6' 4"--330 lbs

This roster had two at 6' 7", four at 6' 6", and seven at 6' 5"

Twelve had listed weights of more than 300 lbs.

The tallest Brown of 1950 was 6' 4".

None had a listed weight of more than 295 lbs--actually only one (Chubby Grigg) was listed above 250 lbs.

 

It's a very interesting discussion. The Army study was during years of conscription (wherein most all were taken and there was still a US Army Air Force which preferred shorter conscripts) compared to an all-volunteer army later.

You are absolutely correct about immigration effecting the height of the US male. Great point. But in regards to Marciano, I will also point both anecdotally from traveling in southern Italy, and from stats, that males in Abruzzo, Puglia, Molise and Calabria are quite short. It is doubtful that a guy like Rocky had much more potential for bone growth than he achieved. It was already well over the mean of his gene pool.

As far as American football, really tall guys were not recruited, common knowledge being they were too frail and high off the ground. As far as weight, well, we are all well aware of the advances on that front. A comparison for height might be the pro B-ball teams of the time. The Lakers in 1956 had Mikan (6-10), Mikkelsen (6-7), Horan (6-8), Hitch (6-8), Lovellette (6-9)... along with a host of guys in the 6-3 to 6-6 range. There are somewhat similar teams today, especially with the decline of the center.

Obviously, a subject for deeper and more comprehensive studies. But from all that I've read I suspect we are only talking a matter of slight degrees in height increase.

 

I found the average weights of the NFL all-decade teams linemen

1920's--227 lbs

1930's--227 lbs

1950's--249 lbs

1960's--258 lbs

1970's--262 lbs

1980's--270 lbs

1990's--299 lbs

 

Yes, steroids and growth hormone party time centre is the NFL.

 

I think we all know the reasons behind this... i.e. largely due to supplements (!) and encouragement from coaches to put on massive amounts excess weight as if Sumo wrestlers. If you have ever seen linemen post retirement, most are about 50 pounds less than their playing weight... at least those that have intention of living more than a few years extra.

Here is an interesting story reflecting studies that show average American height is declining since the 1950's. He purposefully excludes Asians and Hispanics, also...

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/08/12/AR2007081200809.html

 

Maybe I need to read some previous posts but are you trying to argue that Marciano would niether be taller or bigger if he was born in the modern era?

 

Not appreciably so. Studies range from an inch and a half as the average to a zero gain. The fact that Marciano had a very rich and plentiful diet and ample exercise as a child and adolescent makes me think he would be the same size, and were he born today with the advent of junk food and sedentary lifestyle even among the young, he might be shorter and smaller.

 

I wonder what position Wlad would play in gridiron football

 

QB, tight end, or kicker. Nothing else.

 

Left Right Out in all probability.

 

This discussion is absolutely asinine. It's completely speculative. If Marciano was born 50 years later, he might have become an accountant. There is no point in engaging in such speculation. We should compare Marciano as he was to Klitschko as he is.

 

Heights in NBA

Starting lineup 1956-57 Boston Celtics

Bill Russell-----6' 9"
Tom Heinsohn-6' 7"
Jim Loscutoff--6' 5"
Bob Cousy----6' 1"
Bill Sharman---6' 2"

1957-58 St Louis Hawks

Charley Share-----6' 11"
Cliff Hagan--------6' 4"
Bob Pettit---------6' 9"
Slater Martin------5' 10"
Jack McMahon----6' 1"

Now the 2011 Miami Heat

one 7'
two 6' 11"
two 6' 10"
two 6' 9"
five 6' 8"

It does seem to me that the Heat is a much bigger team.

 

I agree completely. We have no idea what size Marciano would be in the modern world or the Klitschkos would have been in the old world.

The point to me, though, is that we are comparing apples to tractors. There is no basis of comparision.

Marciano was big enough to defeat anyone walking the Earth in his day and so was the heavyweight champion.

Wlad Klitschko can claim the same.

Their achievements can be compared, but just taking all the advantages of the modern world and flipping them against Marciano is utterly pointless.

I remember a discussion on the radio in which a caller expressed the thought that the Oakland Raiders of a few years ago (a 3-13 team) were really better than the Lombardi Packers. The announcer agreed, but also said greatness is only judged against others in your own era and the Raiders were a poor team while the Packers (five time NFL champions) had been a great team.

I think that rebuttal remains the bottom line.

The only comparisions between Wlad and Rocky which make any sense is a record comparision. Who did better against the opposition available?

All I can say about a direct head-to-head of two men who didn't live at the same time and in which size becomes the major issue is zzzzzzzzz

 

Yeah actually basketball is a great comparison to use because they players on average today are significantly bigger overall than the guys from the 50's and 60's bar your freaks like Wilt Chamberlain and heavyweight boxing was similar when comparing the heights of then to now.

Out of interest who was the guy who was 7 foot on the 11 Heat team? They were desperately short of capable big men, can only think it was Eddy Curry?

 

Well then should we compare them at all as they would be in different weight classes today? Even still, I take Rocky lol.