wladimir klitschko's dominance is out of this world

I've got to go off what I can see. A lot of the former champs you mentioned aren't thought of as GREAT because of their skills, but rather because they put up good fights against one another in an era with a lot of evenly matched heavyweights.

If Wlad wasn't present, I can envision Wilder, Price, Fury, and Joshua exchanging KOs with each other and getting beaten by Povetkin and other small heavyweights. People might think it was a golden era because they wouldn't have a higher reference point (Wlad) to put it into perspective.

The eras you're mentioning were exciting, but we're really talking about a bunch of cruiserweights.

I would put money on Lewis, Holyfield, Bowe, and Tyson to beat Wlad. The others are too small, not resilient enough, not fast enough, not powerful enough, not fit enough, or just plain not good enough.

Ali wouldn't hurt him and wouldn't get close enough to. It would look a bit like Conn vs. Louis, with Ali being significantly faster but landing less punches than Conn. He relied heavily on his size, and if he was outsized he went to his toughness and his opponent's lack of conditioning. That wouldn't work against Wlad, because he doesn't tire and he'd bludgeon Ali harder than anyone and more frequently.

Holmes wouldn't have a chance because his jab would never get going.

Liston would probably get stopped by a jab. If he didn't throw the second fight with Ali, then he had an extremely weak chin. Another guy who relied on his size.

Look what Foreman did to Frazier....

Foreman is another who relied on his size. He wouldn't have that against Wlad, and he would be significantly outskilled/outjabbed.

The list goes on. Some guys may have the tools to get it done but you can't count Wlad out against any of them because he's an extremely skilled big man with great power and excellent conditioning.

 

I love the man (no ****) and think he is a top ten ATG heavy, but on the lower end. His dominance is mitigated by the three early losses, and at the end of the day, I wish he would have found at least one victory against an opponent who has all three qualities of being big, hard punching, and skilled.

The Brits like to mention Frank Bruno as a guy who might have stacked up well against Wladdy, and whereas I think Wlad might have won, that is exactly the kind of fight I would like to have seen. A Donovan Ruddock, even a Ron Lyle.

Alas, all of his good oppoents have been undersized (Byrd, Chagaeav, Ibragimov, Haye, Povetkin) and all his big, opponents have been either relatively light hitting and/or low quality (Pineta, Wach, Thompson, McCline).

I guess he is just destined to never find a good fighter to define himself against.

 

Sam Peter 2x
Also Haye was a fast murderous puncher and at 6'3 I wouldn't say undersized.

 

What in the blue hell mean undersized?
Did you even know that Tyson was 1,78 ? Ali was 1,91 ? Holyfield was 1,89 ? Holmes 1,91 ? Foreman 1,91?
Peter was 1,88, Brock was 1.88, Ibragimov 1.88, Thompson 1,96, Haye is 1,91 for god sake, Wach is 2,02, Povetkin is 1,88, Pulev is 1,94. Rahman is 1,89, Brewster is 1,88, Ray Austin is 1,99.
If they fight in previous era, they would be big HW. The problem is Klitschko is 6 ft 6 and he is skilled like hell for that height.
And people dont realize how good Kubrat Pulev is. But you will see that in the future. This guy lose to Wlad, but this guy have no fear, have very good jab and fast hands, and can take a shot. Also he knows whats doing, its just that Wlad was too good for him.
Pulev was training like mad for the fight. He was training wrestling for the clinches as well.
Im pretty sure Pulev will beat the new forum hero - Fury.

 

Pulev should have trained some head and foot movement...he just stood there holding his arms out like a wizard casting a spell while Wlad smacked him around.

 

I'm totally confident he walks through the large majority of these opponents with utter ease. He would struggle with Holmes and Lewis.

I'll turn the question around: What makes you think Frazier, Norton or Spinks would stand a chance in today's division? They'd get the living sh*t knocked out of them. They wouldn't even be campaigning at HW.

 

This thread is ****ing gay. atsch

 

Peter is only about 6 feet tall and with very overrated power.

Haye is tall and has a great punch as well as skills, but is a former cruiser and fights at, what, 215?

The guy I want just isn't really on the record.

All in all, though, it has been a great career.

 

If you are addressing me, I don't think that the point is that controversial or difficult. Wlad is 6'6" and it would be nice if he had a guy on his record with comparable size and punch.

I am a Pulev fan, but he is not the kind of big puncher I am talking about.

Just someone of legit contender quality. To me, it wouldn't have to be a champ like Foreman or Rid**** Bowe, just a very legit contender such as Donovan Ruddock, Ron Lyle, Frank Bruno, Jerry ****ey, Bonecrusher Smith...

 

And you were wanting me to give props to Wlad for fighting Jennings who is smaller than Norton and Spinks and nowhere close to the level of Frazieratsch

Wlad never in his life beat anybody as good as those guys.

Wlad could not walk through Pulev with 'utter ease' and he was nothing more than a non moving heavy bag. Wlads answer was to abandon boxing altogether and go for broke with a big bomb.
In between he was leading with clinches , head locking and punching with his two hands out together like superman flying in the air.
All illegal tactics.

If he can't out box a guy like that , he hasn't a hope against good movers who can hit you with every punch in the book.

When the odd guy who can move pops up like Haye , he goes a laboured 12 rounds not even able to hurt Haye once.
When he fought another good mover in Williamson , he got his azz completely handed to him.
Everybody else he fought lacked skills and had cement boots and he still needs cheat moves to beat them.

Wlad in any other era without his ref and against skilled movers with great jabs would barely hold the title.
He wouldn't even have a top 5 jab in the 80's and if you dispute that you never watched 80's HW fights or know nothing about its fighters.

 

Dino again shows us that he know nothing about boxing. Dude go watch tetris, it maybe your sport, cause boxing is simply not.

 

KillSomething,

Again, I respect your opinion.

Yes, you've got to go on what you see.

The fighters that I listed, were involved in great match ups, but they also had many great attributes.

I obviously can't speak for everyone, but I would expect that fans would put into perspective what they were looking at. A golden era can be viewed from different perspectives. If the HW division produced highly exciting matches that were all edge of the seat viewing, then it could be classed as a golden era, even if the fighters weren't that skilled.

On the other hand, a golden era can be viewed like how the 90's were, due to all the great fighters that were active.

No we aren't.

I agree that they could have beaten him, along with some others.

But if you agree that those guys would have beaten him, then that means he wouldn't have had the same level of dominance that he's having today.

That's why I've asked the question - 'Would Wlad have gone ten years undefeated in an earlier era?'

I don't agree at all.

I think a prime Ali would have caused Wlad absolute mayhem with his movement.

He'd have been up on his toes, circling, feinting, darting in and out of range, never staying in the same place for even a second.

He also wasn't small at 6'3, and he had respectable power.

I've seen how Haye's upper body movement while trapped up against the ropes, made Wlad miss, and made him cautious.

I can't envisage how Wlad could have set himself, and it's not in his nature to be aggressive.

I think Ali's footwork would have caused him major problems, and made him frustrated.

I think that would have been a great fight. My money would have been on Holmes, and I don't see why the jab wouldn't have been effective.

There's huge controversy surrounding the Ali fight, but Liston was past his best by then, and Ali was coming into his peak.

Liston had a great jab, and a great left hook. You certainly couldn't count him out. He'd have had a chance.

Styles make fights.

My guess is that George wouldn't have boxed him, and he'd have fought him instead.

I think George would have tried walking him down aggressively, and I think he'd have had a chance.

Psychology plays a huge part in the outcome of a fight.

Wlad's been stopped three times.

Has he ever gotten over that, or does it still play on his mind?

Nobody but him knows the answer to that question.

But nobody knows how he'd have approached a fight with George.

:good

 

yep and there has been superfeather weights who are 6'1


boxing goes by weight though

and haye was a former 190lber

 

Do you really rate Pulev that highly?

 

Why are you totally confident that he would have walked through them with ease?


Based on what he's done from 2004 to the present?


Why wouldn't Norton, Frazier and Spinks have fought at HW today?


Why on earth wouldn't they have stood a chance?


They'd get the living sh*t beat out of them?


By who?

Here are some of today's HW's:

Povetkin
Pulev
Stiverne
Fury
Wilder
Jennings
Tarver
Cunningham
Solis
Arreola
Browne
Charr
Chisora
Glazkov


Who from that list, would have beaten the sh*t out of Michael Spinks, Joe Frazier and Ken Norton?