Wladimir Klitschko's legacy without smaller heavyweights?

For a start I wish people would stop crying about the possibility that Wlad is being slated.

Secondly it's a very interesting point. So few huge athletes exist at the top level but that is something usually parrotted about. There seems to be one or two top quality SHW fighters in each generation but the rest of the field is maybe 10lb or heavier on average than previous years.

Still, one of the very best SHW fighters in Bowe was out pointed by a former CW and Vitali was stopped by a former MW. So size isn't the be all and end all as much as I once thought it was.

I tend to think if a fighter proved himself against a SHW he could succeed today. With that in mind almost every great HW champion would have a very good chance of success, the only man who didn't really beat any SHW fighters was Rocky Marciano so I just couldn't predict how he would do today but I see no reason to assume he could beat a man 50lb heavier than him.

 

Uh no, your argument fell apart under its own weight. I took apart your argument piece by piece and showed it to just be a hit job on Wlad's opponents (and thus Wlad), claiming without evidence they are overweight. The fighters you listed are a small number of his overall defenses, a majority but not totality of his best defenses, and are still heavier than most hw top contenders more than 30 years ago (your argument seems to be have evolved from implicitly stating much more than 30 years, to now just a bare 30 years ago).

 

Crazy post. You think if someone beat ONE SHW, no matter what kind of quality, that means they could succeed today?! That's insane. There have always been SHW's. The relevant feature is that they have become more and more common, and thus the skill base they have has become greater and greater. Also, your examples are among the worst imaginable, Bowe Holyfield? Bowe decisively showed himself better, winning 2 of 3 (and arguably all three) and Vitali lost primarily due to injury. And both Holyfield and Byrd were much larger than Marciano.

 

on the otherhand, if rocky had eaten all the pies till he topped 240 lbs, he would easily defeat every SHW.


welcome to planet K.

 

No that's not what I believe at all.

I believe if a man is able to beat a top level SHW he removes the reasoning "he's to small to compete"

There might be SHW fighters with more skill or more stylistic advantages but picking someone purely because they are bigger doesn't wash when a man has already beaten the biggest out there.

I'm pretty sure Rocky was the one man I didn't pick to have any success.

Holy was able to beat Bowe. Byrd was able to beat Vitali. Would Dempsey be able to beat Wlad? I'm not sure but if I picked Wlad it wouldn't be because Wlad is too big I know that much.

 

Bowe basically beat Holyfield three times, Byrd posed a stylistic challenge to Wlad but won because of an injury.

You're just using different words to describe exactly what I described. Your assuming Willard re comparable to Wlad Klitscko. Completely different animals. Willard was a huge freak who could box some despite very limited athletic abilities, comparable in that respect to Valuev, except Valuev was massively larger. Dempsey fought in an era where there were vastly fewer and vastly less skilled SHWs. Willard was "top" back then just because he was huge and could box a bit, the Lewis's and Klitschkos of the world are as large or larger than him, but massively more talented. They compete in an era where SHW's are not just freaks, but everyday opponents, with a much broader array of skills.

And heral, no one is saying Rocky would be better if he gained 60 pounds of fat. Might he have been more dangerous with 25 pounds of mixed fat and muscle? Maybe, as long as it doesn't compromise your athleticism to much (as 60 pounds would) fat in proper measure isn't necessarily disadvantageous.

 

its too funny andy, you keep it up.


layer on the fat to win the prize.!!

 

But only he didn't beat Holy three times. Byrd didn't beat Wlad neither.

I'm not talking about less skilled opposition, I'm talking about hugger opposition. If a man has flattened a SHW you can't use the argument that SHW fighters are too big. You can say a certain fighter is more skilled and would win but you can't say "fighter A wins because he is 30 pounds heavier".

I would assume you're a Wlad hater by the way your posting. It's a bit naive to assume Wlad only wins because he is too big for his opponents. He wins because he has an incredible jab, genuinely concussive power that can end a fight any time and a clinching game that means he never has to compete from close-mid range. As well as that he has the fitness to fight his fight for 2 full rounds. I guess I just rate Wlad a bit higher than you do.

 

And which accomplishments are those? Holyfield's record is a joke compared to Lewis'.

 

moving up to win the hw title and defending it.

 

Being the first 4 time Heavyweight champion aint a bad accomplishment considering he started at Cruiserweight

 

yeah a lot of, people rate evander as a top ten hw atg. I can see why.

the peds are a serious problem in that rating though.

 

Asking those guys to fight at 200 is stretching it. They'd have to resort to Guillermo Jones style weight-cutting drugs.

Haye claims it was getting more and more difficult for him to make 200 and I believe him.

Best scenario for boxing is a new heavyweight class 200-225. 225+ becomes super heavyweight.

Heavyweight could be a good division for television if it was restricted to 200-225. Fat heavyweights like Arreola and Ruiz would cut to make it as they would realize they have better chances in this division then 225+. Champ level heavies like Povetkin and Chagaev would come into fights in better physical condition, having had to make weight.

Although 225 would be within reach for Wilder, it would be a bridge too far for a late-career super heavyweight champion like Klitschko or Lewis. Champs at 200-225 would have the option of challenging Klitschko for the super heavy title without risking their heavyweight title.

 

He had a size advantage over almost all of his best opponents. We get it.