Wladimir Klitschkos Legacy

Can you name me the opponents, who could be considered Wlad's marquee wins, please?

Also, your point about Ali and Frazier is based on 'what ifs'. The fact is that Ali, who is widely considered the greatest heavyweight to ever live, was beaten by a monumental effort from Frazier. To reduce Frazier's place in Heavyweight history, based on this one opponent, would also be a considerable oversight.

Frazier beat other solid competition, including: Jimmy Ellis, Jerry Quarry, Eddie Machen, Oscar Bonavena and George Chuvalo. It's no good speculating about what might have happened if Ali, who'd never been in exile, had schooled Frazier in their first encounter. It just didn't happen that way and Frazier is an ATG Heavyweight because of what actually happened.

I disagree with your view of desirability in "pure boxing terms". Boxers and spectators alike want competitive contests, not necessarily to struggle and or lose, as you put it. People can tell the difference between dominance over a strong or a weaker opponent. It is a mistake to think observers are not able to make this distinction.

 

Haye, Byrd and Pulev do not equate to marquee names.

I'd have Wlad in my Top-20; not in my Top-10.

 

Larry had his Joshua moment against Olympic Gold medallist and undefeated pro Ray Mercer. He won that fight at 42. Wlad lost by a late round battering.

 

You're making up primes for Wlad , but fail to realise that Sanders was well past his prime and wasn't even a name when he was prime.
If Wlad had a pre-prime then so does Joshua.
That means AJ vs Wlad was fought on an even playing field. Hell , even Fury was also pre-prime and had zero championship experience.

 

I know that AJ is pre-prime but he is better than Corrie Sanders ever was and Wladimir competed
with him until the 11th round and knocked him down in the 6th round.

Tyson Fury has great boxing skills and a big reach advantage to almost every heavyweight on the planet , you
can't win against him as an outside boxer , you need to put him under pressure with a constantly good workrate
and inside fighting , he was a nightmare for Wladimirs fighting style the same way Ken Norton was a nightmare
for Muhammad Ali.

 

Holmes had his moment against prime Mike Tyson at age 39 and threw a few jabs before being KO'd with one shot. We don't know if Joshua is as good as that Mike yet but he could well be.

And you know who the first ever guy to ever floor Mercer was, right?

 

It's circular logic to give Ali more credit for beating Joe Frazier because Joe Frazier was good enough to be competitive with (and ultimately beat) Ali. Using your standards, Ali whitewashing Frazier would've been worth less.

Doesn't add up. At that point, you're rewarding fighters more for struggling or having competitive fights than for dominating.

Since that seems to be your rationale, there's no point trying to convince you that Wlad is worthy of a top 10 ATG ranking, because there's no denying the level of dominance.

Cheers, and have a great day. We'll agree to disagree on this.

 

Very good post, agree on all points. I was actually re-watching some younger Wlad fights today, and anyone could clearly notice that physically that he has slowed down.

 

Wladimir has a fantastic legacy.
Look at whos he has fought and beat in all of the years he has been around. He has fought many of the top fighters, some of which regained titles after he beat them. Some of the names may not be recalled now but were decent at the time.


undefeated WBA regular champ Povetkin
WBA champ Haye
undefeated WBO champ Ibragimov
undefeated WBA champ (think stripped of title when fight happened) Chagaev
WBO champ Byrd
IBF champ Byrd
undefeated Peter (beat twice)
undefeated Wach
undefeated Pulev
undefeated Jennings
undefeated Pianetta
undefeated Brock
Thompson (beat twice)
Brewster
Mercer
Botha
Schulz
Bostice
McCline
Jefferson
Nicholson
Chambers
Rahman


Wladimir has a very impressive resume

 

The best Wlad was Byrd II. He also looked great against Haye. I think after Haye, he started to slow down. The loss of Steward, injuries started piling up, training camp delays. He looked rough against Pulev but it made for an entertaining fight.

Remember, Wlad got hurt in training for Fury. The fight was supposed to have been delayed until February 2016. But it ended up happening in November.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/ot...hko-could-be-delayed-until-February-2016.html

 

Agree.

I was watching some of his earlier fights. Guys like Calvin Brock were really a lot better than their reputation would lead one to think. And the way he handled a guy like Chagaev was incredibly impressive. Chaggy was no joke.

 

I have read how some feel Joshua wouldnt have beaten prime Wladimir and agree it is very possible that prime Wladimir could beat Joshua after only 18 fights, but is that prime Joshua with so few fights?
It does seem some on here dont look at every aspect.
Wladimir on his 19th fight wasnt facing a former champ or legend, and in Wladimirs 25th fight lost to Purity.
Do I think Wladimir after 18 fights would beat Joshua after 18 fights? Who knows
Joshua isnt massively experienced with less than 20 fights

 

Brock did really well, he was hurting Wlad to the body. He forced Wlad on his toes.

I actually rewatched Chageav yesterday. Chageav had great movement in that fight, Wlad was fantastic at cutting off the ring and finding his range against him.

 

So the barometer of Wlad greatness is based off beating a shot to pieces Byrd who was coming off gift decisions against Golota and Oquendo?
And Haye who just lost to Bellew?

The best Wlad ever looked was in Byrd I and MaCline. In those fights he was swift and delivered his shots with solid technique and good snap. Its also the best his jab ever looked. The Wlad jab diminished after the Brewster blow out.
You can take Byrd II -where Byrd was so far gone he was literally standing dead centre of the ring blocking punches with his face - and stick it up returded hole.