Wladimir Klitscko - ATG?

Ten years as champ and ruled as long as he did?? You could not do much better than that. He is a ATG.

 

Sure! Top ten. The man held the title for so long, all those successful defenses. I don't know how many he could have beaten that were better at the time. He beat the best that were there.

He was a great fighter. I believe I have him just under Iron Mike at #10.

 

I have always rated Vitali a lot higher than Wlad.

 

A big NO for me. Not a legit contender for top 10-12.

 

Absolutely. Dominated for a decade

 

Him being in a weak era isn't his fault. You can only beat whos in front of you. He dominated for a decade and Steward himself (Lewis's trainer) acknowledged him as a great

 

I can’t stand to watch him fight but yeah he accomplished a lot.

But he ducked that Vitali guy so you have to hold that against him.

 

He did avenge the defeat to Brewster in definitive fashion.

I don't think his opposition was all that mediocre. He beat A LOT of good fighters. There weren't a lot of other HoF heavyweights for him to compete with at the time, but Chris Byrd, Sam Peter x2, Brewster, Rahman, Chagaev, Pulev and Povetkin plus other former titlists isn't a bad resume compared to some of the guys Joe Louis or Larry Holmes defended against. Or Tommy Burns for that matter.

"unfair physical advantage?" well that's called heavyweight boxing baby.

yes he was boring. but most people rate based on resume or h2h potential. as i've said before if we were rating favorites he's not in my top 20 hw titlists.

he was never undisputed because he refused to fight his brother and because then the WBC wanted very much to have an american hw champion. the fight with Wilder may have happened if Fury hadn't retired Wlad. But he was recognized by all reasonable fans and authorities as *the* heavyweight champion until Fury beat him.

he has 1 loss in his prime, which he avenged. his prime was from when Manny took over as his trainer until probably sometime between Haye and Wach. which is an 8 year prime, with 1 avenged loss, defeating most of his opponents by KO or near shut-out decisions. Most heavyweight champs in history can't claim even close to a resume like that. He also

Wlad doesn't have any controversial decision wins, which Holmes and Ali and Louis can't claim. Obviously all 3 of those legends are greater than Wlad, but there's an argument there to rank him very high.

 

I’m 100% gonna bully my grandkids over Wlad. I’m gonna talk down to them about all the secret nuances of my eras HW boxers.

 

He's definitely an ATG. You could argue he didn't have the greatest competition out there, but still, he reigned for a decade.
And of course he stands a chance, he obliterates Louis and Marciano, he can beat both on the same night.
It's tougher against Liston, I give Liston the edge.

 

He's my #5 heavyweight, so, yes he is ATG.

As for weak eras etc I think people forget the sort of competition other greats faced that make them 'great'. Wlad would go through Louis' competition like a bull in a china shop.

 

Of course he is an ATG, & definitely top 10.
I share most of the skepticism about what moderates his accomplishments-& will add that getting away with too much clinching due to referee home cooking must be counted against him!

But all those years as champion.
All of those successful defenses.
His era could not have been much weaker than surrounding ones.
And compared to much earlier eras, greater average size & strength makes up for skill deficits.

But there is no way someone can beat so many top HWs as champion for so long & not be somewhat historically great.

 

I don't see it as far fetched.
Marciano and Louis were dropped by men who didn't hit anywhere near as hard as Wlad.
If Wlad lands a clean power punch, it's all over.

 

What do you mean "definitely top 10" ? As in your own personal top 10 or a consensus top 10? If its the latter then can I see it?

Counter argument , there's no way anybody can be regarded as an ATG based on the following career calamities

- Destroyed by past prime Sanders and ducked a rematch
- Destroyed by an inactive Brewster and dodged an immediate rematch
- Went life and death and held on for dear life against Sam Peter. Hugged and fouled his way to victory in the rematch when Peter was shot to bits
-Hugged and fouled his way to victory against old man Tony Thompson
-Hugged and fouled his way to victory against novice Bryan Jennings
-Hugged and fouled Povetkin worse than any other boxer in the history of the sport
- Used an illegal spongy canvas against Pulev and tried to do the same against Tyson Fury. Ended up getting clowned by an inexperienced Fury who was on the cusp of a mental breakdown.

Thats just a very basic glossary of all the illegal help Klitschko needed to keep his belts during the worst HW era known to man.