Wladimir may have been Drugged after all!!

eze · Oct 27, 2010

Bazooka said: ↑

Come on dude seriously... he was out on his feet he took some ****ing bombs his conditioning is what kept him somewhat still with us..... one more hard shot and his career may have been over
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You went from, brutally KOed to out on his feet.

Bubby · Oct 27, 2010

Lance_Uppercut said: ↑

Get over it....Wlad blew his wad too early...had a panic attack.
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Why would Wald have a panic attack?
was it because Brewster was laying at his feet??

Starched Him · Oct 27, 2010

doylexxx said: ↑

left lung?
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right hand straight into that rib cage wlad was not the same after that punch

Lance_Uppercut · Oct 27, 2010

Bubby said: ↑

Why would Wald have a panic attack?
was it because Brewster was laying at his feet??
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Panic attacks come for a number of reasons. Overly anxious is one. But try asking a doctor on the causes. That said, Wlad's symptoms were consistent with a panic/anxiety attack.

ZippyMan · Oct 27, 2010

Bazooka said: ↑

Exactly articles from the web, he went to the hospital because he was knocked out brutally if his blood sugar levels were low I think we would have confirmation by a Dr. that we did not get.
and even then low blood sugar levels do not mean posioned, he could have Hypoglycimia (if I spelled that right)
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The sugar levels were diagnosed at the hospital. Levels high enough to kill some people. Wlad looked very strange even before his legs got weak. He was very pale and his lips turned purple.

And;

- The betting went from 11 to 1 to 3.X to 1 only hours before the fight
- One of his teams pass cards was picked up and used before the owner of that card even got to the facility
- The blood samples taken right after the fight and that were sent to the lab went missing. Two separate samples. It is hard to lose two samples.
- Vitali stated after the demolition of Brewster in the rematch that it was very clear that Wlad was not himself during the first fight.

Who knows what exactly happened? No me or anybody else on this forum. We all do know that sports and especially boxing can be very dirty because of the money that is made through the betting game. I wish I knew the fix was in.

ZippyMan · Oct 27, 2010

doylexxx said: ↑

DRUGS:

This content is protected

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You put enough drugs in Wlad and I can snap his head back with my best shot too.

thesandman · Oct 27, 2010

ZippyMan said: ↑

The sugar levels were diagnosed at the hospital. Levels high enough to kill some people. Wlad looked very strange even before his legs got weak. He was very pale and his lips turned purple.

And;

- The betting went from 11 to 1 to 3.X to 1 only hours before the fight
- One of his teams pass cards was picked up and used before the owner of that card even got to the facility
- The blood samples taken right after the fight and that were sent to the lab went missing. Two separate samples. It is hard to lose two samples.
- Vitali stated after the demolition of Brewster in the rematch that it was very clear that Wlad was not himself during the first fight.

Who knows what exactly happened? No me or anybody else on this forum. We all do know that sports and especially boxing can be very dirty because of the money that is made through the betting game. I wish I knew the fix was in.
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Jesus Christ. The only excuse you've left out is the one about Wlads entire body being covered in vaseline, which didn't allow his skin to breathe so he collapsed.

This thread comes up every so often, and normally it grinds to a halt when somebody posts the comments from the doctor at the fight. I'll find them if I can be arsed.

Basically the high blood sugar (for a very short time) is explained by the IV the ambo's put him on, on the way to the hospital, the "missing" blood samples has already been explained (they were destroyed with permission from Wlads team).

And somebody stealing press credentials? Seriously? ****, I wish I had a dollar for every time that happened. It's a pretty common way to get into expensive events.

garfios · Oct 27, 2010

ZippyMan said: ↑

The sugar levels were diagnosed at the hospital. Levels high enough to kill some people. Wlad looked very strange even before his legs got weak. He was very pale and his lips turned purple.

And;

- The betting went from 11 to 1 to 3.X to 1 only hours before the fight
- One of his teams pass cards was picked up and used before the owner of that card even got to the facility
- The blood samples taken right after the fight and that were sent to the lab went missing. Two separate samples. It is hard to lose two samples.
- Vitali stated after the demolition of Brewster in the rematch that it was very clear that Wlad was not himself during the first fight.

Who knows what exactly happened? No me or anybody else on this forum. We all do know that sports and especially boxing can be very dirty because of the money that is made through the betting game. I wish I knew the fix was in.
Click to expand...

You don't die because you have a high glucose level, you could die, and alot of ppl has, because the count is low, stop with the BS, he loss fair and square.

thesandman · Oct 27, 2010

Here we go.

Part 1 of dismissing the utter bull**** in this thread was written years ago..

This content is protected

Boxing Isn't Easily Embarrassed But ...

By Thomas Hauser

Requesting that the United States Government conduct an investigation is serious business. Before doing so, one should, at the very least, get the facts straight.

On May 5th, Judd Burstein (the attorney recently retained by Wladimir Klitschko) sent a letter to the United States Attorney for the District of Nevada. In that latter, Burstein declares, "I am writing to respectfully request that your office conduct an investigation into the highly suspicious events surrounding Mr. Klitschko's April 10, 2004, Las Vegas bout against Lamon Brewster, and the equally suspicious frustration of Mr. Klitschko's subsequent efforts to ascertain whether or not he had been illicitly drugged or poisoned prior to or during the bout with Mr. Brewster."

In many respects, the letter reads more like a press release than a serious call for an investigation. Indeed, one could be forgiven for believing that its primary purpose is to gain an immediate rematch for Klitschko, so let's start by revisiting the fight.

Against Brewster, Klitschko looked like a fighter between styles. He fought with his feet wide apart; held on awkwardly when Lamon got inside; and bailed out whenever Brewster threw punches. In round three, he was wobbled by an awkward blow that looked like a hybrid jab-hook. Then, in the fourth round, he landed a huge right hand that put Brewster on the canvas and had Lamon on ***** street when he rose.

If the fight had ended at that point, there would be no talk now of poison or drugs. All we'd hear from the Klitschko camp is how wonderful Wladimir looked. But Brewster survived with a marvelous display of will and, in round five, began landing heavy blows of his own. At the bell, he knocked Klitschko out.

Burstein's letter references a series of irrelevancies concerning Robert Mittleman's fixing of fights and Arnold Rothstein bribing eight members of the Chicago White Sox to throw the 1919 World Series. Next, he makes a mountain out of a molehill by referring to "a very suspicious incident concerning fight credentials." Apparently, prior to the bout, a member of the Klitschko team went to pick up his credential and was told that it had already been picked up. This is construed to have created "a situation where an unidentified person secured an all-access pass through fraud, thus providing himself unfettered access to the arena," which could have led to all manner of nerarious things.

Building block number three is gambling. Burstein's letter states, "The odds on the bout plummeted from 11 to 1 in Mr. Klitschko's favor to just 3-1/2 to 1 by fight time . . . Mr. Brewster was understandably a heavy underdog, and nothing in the public domain gave any cause for such a drastic change in the betting line. On the other hand, if a drugging of Mr. Klitschko was planned in advance, that fact would easily explain why there was so much late money bet on Mr. Brewster."

However, in reality, very little money was bet on the fight, so one or two wagers were capable of shifting the odds dramatically. Also, the sports book at Mandalay Bay is reported to have changed the odds on its own to engender more betting on the bout.

Then the Burstein letter gets to the heart of the matter; the suggestion that Wladimir Klitschko was either poisoned on drugged.

"Inexplicably, beginning in or about the second round," Burstein writes, "and prior to having been hit with any significant punches, Mr. Klitschko exhibited and experienced a rapid loss of energy, coherence, and equilibrium . . . As both Mr. Klitschko and his entire team, including Hall of Fame trainer Emanuel Steward, will attest, Mr. Klitschko was in extraordinary physical condition for the bout. Indeed, according to Mr. Klitschko, he had never trained so well or come into a bout so well-conditioned. Significantly, he had never shown himself to be a fighter who lacked conditioning or stamina. Thus, what happened on April 10 is wholly inconsistent with Mr. Klitschko's career."

This is known as rewriting history. Boxing fans will recall that the first loss of Klitschko's career came against journeyman Ross Puritty, when Wladimir all but collapsed from exhaustion and his own corner halted the fight. Let's also remember that Emanuel Steward assured everyone that Lennox Lewis was in great shape for Lewis-Rahman I. The difference is, when a poorly-conditioned Lennox got knocked out, the deposed champion didn't blame foul play; nor did he blame the altitude in South Africa (which was probably a factor). Instead, he said simply, "I got caught."

The Burstein letter next features a section entitled, "THE FRUSTRATION OF MR. KLITSCHKO'S EFFORTS TO LEARN THE TRUTH." Here, Burstein states, "Out of concern for Mr. Klitschko, he was taken to the University Medical Center of Southern Nevada after the bout. At that time, blood and urine samples were taken from Mr. Klitschko. The next day, in order to ensure that he would have an opportunity to ascertain the truth, Mr. Klitschko arranged for additional blood and urine samples to be taken at Quest Diagnostics. Mr. Klitschko's team made it emphatically clear that they wanted the blood and urine specimens preserved so that they could be tested by an independent doctor of Mr. Klitschko's choosing. On April 14, 2004, both UMC and Quest were sent appropriate medical authorizations, signed by Mr. Klitschko, requesting that his medical records, including his blood and urine specimens, be sent to noted physician, Dr. Robert Voy. Quest has a policy of retaining blood and urine specimens for seven days after testing, and UMC has a policy of retaining blood specimens for ten days after testing. Hence, all of the blood and urine samples were in existence on April 14, when Quest and UMC received the medical authorization forms signed by Mr. Klitschko."

However -- "incredibly," according to the Burstein letter -- the blood and urine samples were destroyed. "Of course, there are a number of possible explanations, some innocent, for what occurred," Burstein writes. "However, one of those possible explanations, and an eminently reasonable one, is that those specimens were destroyed in order to hide the truth of what happened to Mr. Klitschko."

There are myriad problems with this hypothesis. First, it presupposes that the University Medical Center and Quest Diagnostics were part of a massive conspiracy and cover-up. And second, it misstates the facts.

In truth, the Klitschko camp was told exactly what to do to get Wladimir's blood and urine specimens, but failed to follow up with the necessary paperwork in a timely manner. Klitschko signed an authorization for his representatives to receive all medical information and samples. But the lawyer who preceded Burstein on the case only requested information, not blood and urine samples, from UMC and Quest.

Let's also note that all of the drug screens tested "normal." And while it's technically possible that a drug not tested for was administered to Klitschko, there's no clinical evidence to support that hypothesis. Moreover, Wladimir left the hospital against medical advice hours after the fight. Behavior of that nature is hardly consistent with a belief that one has been poisoned or drugged.
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thesandman · Oct 27, 2010

Burstein acknowledges that, prior to writing to the United States Attorney, he did not contact the Nevada State Athletic Commission to confirm the factual statements contained in his letter. Rather, he states, "Every fact in my letter came from a memorandum prepared by Ron DiNicola's office."

However, Mr. DiNicola is hardly a disinterested observer. He is one of Wladimir Klitschko's attorneys and, on April 16, 2004, sent an equally flawed letter regarding the fight to WBO president Francisco Valcarcel.

So what happened to Wladimir Klitschko in his fight against Lamon Brewster?

The truth may lie in another HBO offering. Anyone who watches The Sopranos knows that Tony Soprano suffers from panic attacks.

A panic attack has nothing to do with courage. No one should question Wladimir Klitschko's bravery. Rather, a panic attack is a physiological response during which a person experiences a range of symptoms such as light-headedness, dizziness, rapid heartbeat, hyperventilation, fatigue, and shortness of breath. One scenario far more likely than the conspiracy theory advanced by the Klitschko camp is that, as the fight progressed, Wladimir Klitschko suffered a panic attack. Then he got whacked and suffered a concussion.

Wladimir and Vitali Klitschko are likeable intelligent individuals. There was every reason to believe that they would be a breath of fresh air for boxing, and they still might be.

But for the moment, it's hard to escape the conclusion that Wladimir is in denial; that there are certain hard truths that he is simply unable to accept. And while we're on the subject of the Klitschkos, boxing fans are growing weary of Vitali's complaining that his fight against Lennox Lewis was stopped too soon and that Lennox retired rather than give him a rematch.

There are enough bad occurrences in boxing to obviate the need for creating imaginary ones. Marc Ratner (executive director of the Nevada State Athletic Commission) says as much, when he declares, "I'm saddened by this whole state of affairs. We have a wonderful fight this weekend [Pacquiao-Marquez] and another one [Jones-Tarver] coming up. And instead of concentrating on these fights, we're spending time dealing with nonsensical allegations that have no validity whatsoever."

Let's also consider the fact that all of this is insulting to Lamon Brewster. Lamon fought a courageous fight, and it's wrong to tarnish his victory in this manner.

Judd Burstein is an excellent lawyer and my friend, but this is one time when he has overstepped his bounds.

As for Wladimir Klitschko, there's no embarrassment in his having been knocked out by Lamon Brewster. But Wladimir is dangerously close to embarrassing himself now.

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Part 2

garfios · Oct 27, 2010

thesandman said: ↑

Jesus Christ. The only excuse you've left out is the one about Wlads entire body being covered in vaseline, which didn't allow his skin to breathe so he collapsed.

This thread comes up every so often, and normally it grinds to a halt when somebody posts the comments from the doctor at the fight. I'll find them if I can be arsed.

Basically the high blood sugar (for a very short time) is explained by the IV the ambo's put him on, on the way to the hospital, the "missing" blood samples has already been explained (they were destroyed with permission from Wlads team).

And somebody stealing press credentials? Seriously? ****, I wish I had a dollar for every time that happened. It's a pretty common way to get into expensive events.
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Maybe he had a reaction to the roids, that is why they destroyed the samples.

thesandman · Oct 27, 2010

http://www.thesweetscience.com/boxi...-sugar-but-klitschko-excuses-just-taste-sour/

...

Dr. Margaret Goodman is the chairwoman of the Nevada State Athletic Commission's medical advisory board and has, since the appointment of Dr. Flip Homansky to the NSAC, served as Nevada's chief ringside physician. She was in the ring and attending to Klitschko seconds after Byrd stopped the fight.

Although there are obviously some doctor-patient confidentiality issues involved, Nevada Attorney General Ken Kizer has assured Dr. Goodman that by placing their inflammatory charges in the public domain, Klitschko and Burstein have essentially waived confidentiality on the particulars they have discussed.

Burstein's letter to the US Attorney claims that:
"Mr. Klitschko has also confirmed that his head was completely clear after the Brewster fight was stopped; yet he could not speak or move his body with ease It is also important to note that Mr. Klitschko's blood sugar level after the fight was 230 -- almost twice the normal level. Medical experts have confirmed to the Klitschko team that such an elevated count may well indicate that Mr. Klitschko was given a foreign substance."

But Dr. Goodman's recollections of events paints a very different picture.
"When I got to the ring Wladimir initially seemed alert and responsive," recalled Goodman, "but then back in the corner he began to exhibit changes. He seemed increasingly lethargic, and within a few minutes became less responsive to questioning."

Dr. Goodman ascribed this to a "transitory loss of consciousness" - in layman's terms, Wladimir was "out on his feet."

Burstein's letter also claims that Klitschko's "pupils were dilated," which isn't precisely correct, either.

"There was an inequality in the pupils," said Goodman, who recognized this as another cause for concern.

"My immediate concern was that there might be a cerebral injury - either bleeding or swelling on the brain," she said. "Or possibly, he had been hit directly in the eye."

Under Goodman's instruction, Klitschko was immediately transported by ambulance to the trauma center at the University Medical Center in Las Vegas. He was accompanied on this journey by EMTs, by a neurologist, Dr. Albert Capanna, by Vitali Klitschko, and by Emanuel Steward (whose name is somewhat bewilderingly spelled "Emmanuel" in Burstein's letter to the US Attorney's office).

On the short trip to the hospital Klitschko was fitted with an IV, a standard precautionary measure in emergency-room situations like this, simply because should the worst happen, the IV will already be in place; were the patient to, just for instance, suddenly go into convulsions it would be much more difficult to hook him up to an IV.

Under normal circumstances the standard IV would be a D5½NS, which includes a glucose solution. Dr. Goodman was not in the ambulance but noted that "we usually don't use glucose" in connection with potential brain injuries. Still, it is entirely possible that Wladimir Klitschko was either given D5½NS, or, if the EMTs feared a hypoglycemic reaction, they might pushed an ampule of an even more heavily concentrated glucose substance called D50 to replenish Klitschko's blood sugar. It may well have been that the EMTs, who are NOT brain surgeons, administered the most handy available IV. Either would certainly explain the subsequent - and temporary - elevation in his blood sugar.

"We don't know what was in the IV," said Dr. Goodman.

At the hospital Klitschko was administered a full battery of tests, including a CAT scan, and the pupil inequality resolved on its own. To Goodman's relief her initial diagnosis of a Grade 3 concussion was confirmed and her fears of more serious cerebral injury were not. Following the brain examinations, several other routine procedures were followed. All were normal save the blood-sugar level, which was 232, which physicians uniformly agree was "elevated, but not dangerous."

Despite having ruled out their gravest fears, attending physicians wanted Klitschko to remain in the hospital overnight for observation - for the concussion, NOT for the blood sugar, which at that point wasn't even a concern. Dr. Wladimir Klitschko at this point conferred with Dr. Vitali Klitschko and decided to check himself out of the hospital. After signing a form that he was doing so "against medical advice," the two Klitschkos left, accompanied by Steward.

The next morning they had contacted an independent lab called Quest and had repeat blood work done. Everything was normal, including the sugar level. They requested the specimens from UMH and were given the proper phone numbers and instructions for the protocol involved in obtaining these. Although this information was repeatedly provided to the Klitschkos and their representatives over the next several days, they never followed through.
Although blood work and lab specimens which have yielded positive results would be preserved, samples whose results were unremarkable and normal would routinely be disposed of in a week to ten days. The Klitschko camp was provided with phone numbers and ample warning, but in the absence of a response the samples were destroyed.

Burstein apparently sees this as evidence of a conspiracy:
"Incredibly, though, all of the specimens, with the exception of one milliliter of urine (too small an amount to permit meaningful testing), had been destroyed by UMC and Quest. To date, no rational explanation has been presented for this failure to deliver the specimens which UMC and Quest had in their possession at the time Mr. Klitschko requested that they be transferred to Dr. (Robert) Voy. Of course, there are a number of possible explanations, some innocent, for what occurred. However, one of those possible explanations - and an eminently reasonable one - is that those specimens were destroyed in order to hide the truth of what happened to Mr. Klitschko."
"The truth of what happened to Mr. Klitschko" is that he got smacked upside the head by Mr. Brewster. And what would have been highly irregular would have been the preservation of the specimens after the normal expiration period.

The independent lab work done for the Klitschkos by Quest tested for over 100 substances, and even included a toxicology scan on Wladimir's boxing trunks, which were thoughtfully provided to the lab the next day. (Which technician got to check out the brown stains remains unlearned.)

Between Quest's tests and those done at UMH after the fight, the only remotely abnormal result was the blood sugar level drawn after the CAT scan had been completed, and that had resolved by the next morning. The 232 level - again, "elevated but not dangerous" - could have several possible explanations, but the IV in the ambulance remains the most likely one.
In other words, if Klitschko (and Burstein, who ought to know better) are going to throw around charges of "foul play," let's hear some specifics. What mysterious substance is this that would cause Wladimir to get his ass kicked and then disappear altogether?

"How come all of the screens have been normal and nothing has come up?" said Dr. Goodman to the Las Vegas Review Journal's Ross Feour last week after Burstein went public with his letter.

Noting that Klischko had nearly knocked Brewster out in the fourth round, she asked "How could a drug be that transient? Why wouldn't the tests be more abnormal? How come nothing is showing anything?"
"What is it," Goodman asked us over the weekend, "that they THINK he was given?"

The assembled evidence suggests that Wladmir Klitschko ought to be grateful for the medical assistance with which he was provided and thankful for his physical safety. Instead he continues to whine like a child.

And it's not as if this hasn't happened before. Did somebody slip Wladimir a mickey before the Corrie Sanders fight? Was he drugged against Ross Purrity? Was it some mysterious substance that made Vitali 'Quitschko' against Chris Byrd? Was Lennox Lewis able to bust up Vitali because his gloves were loaded?

Oops, sorry. Forget that last one. Judd Burstein represented LENNOX back then.

What about the other particulars cited in Burstein's missive demanding a federal investigation?

First of all, Burstein noted that the sports-book odds tumbled from 11-1 to 7-2 in the days before the fight. He claims that it "is virtually unheard of for them to change so dramatically in such a short period of time."
Well, it's NOT unheard of, for openers. What it more probably means is that there was very little action on the fight up until the weekend, and that when there was, most of the money that came in was on Brewster.
This seems entirely reasonable. Think about it: Given his history, would YOU have bet $110 on Klitschko to win $10?

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thesandman · Oct 27, 2010

..continued

Burstein also made much of the case of the vanishing credential. Supposedly somebody scammed his way into the fight by picking up a credential reserved for an unnamed member of the Klitschko posse. Despite promoters' elaborate precautions, we can assure you that this is not unheard of, either. Since whoever was in possession of the FAUX credential was never spotted, we can probably assume that either somebody miscounted on the initial allotment, or the interloper, if indeed there was one, just found a seat and watched the fight. There is no evidence that any unauthorized person ever got near the Klitschko corner, but Burstein's letter to the US Attorney leaps, incredibly, in a single paragraph, from this allegation to Robert Mittleman to Arnold Rothstein and the 1919 Black Sox.

Even more preposterously, Burstein attempts to use as "evidence" a comment made by an employee of the Palms sports book to the Las Vegas Sun's Deane Juipe that the Vitali Klitschko-Corrie Sanders fight two weeks later had been taken off the board "because the other Klitschko [Wladimir] looked like he was poisoned or something in the fight with Brewster." (Emphasis supplied by Burstein.)

Of course, when this decidedly unscientific view was elicited (on April 19), the Klitschkos had been howling to anyone who would listen about Wladimir having been "poisoned" for eight days already.

Could it be, rather, that the gambling industry came to the same wary conclusion much of the boxing world did? To wit: If you've seen one Klitschko, you've seen them all.

The notion that Wladimir was defeated by foul play and not by his own inadequacies would neatly fit into the agenda of at least one major player on the boxing scene. A few days before the Brewster-Wladimir Klitschko fight an HBO insider said to boxing author and attorney Thomas Hauser "how can we go wrong with four Klitschko title fights a year?"

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thesandman · Oct 27, 2010

Right, after giving everyone hours of reading..... keep arguing he was drugged if you like.

ZippyMan · Oct 27, 2010

thesandman said: ↑

Right, after giving everyone hours of reading..... keep arguing he was drugged if you like.
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The explanation for the rapid change in the odds is pretty weak. Only when something is known such as an injury or a fix do the odds change rapidly. "Not many bets"? Common, why don't they quantify it? Maybe not many for a top HW fight but to change the odds like that would require some serious money in such short notice.

Even more convincing is the rematch. Brewster was a punching bag just like he was in the first couple of rounds of the first fight. Wlad didn't gas out or have a panic attack. He just turned off for some reason.

Who knows? Maybe he threw the fight himself and cashed in. He might not be as saintly as he seems.

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Wladimir may have been Drugged after all!!

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Wladimir may have been Drugged after all!!

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