Wladimir vs the following

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by lufcrazy, Dec 24, 2015.


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  1. lufcrazy

    lufcrazy requiescat in pace Full Member

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    Take the very best version of Wlad, whichever one you think whether it's the one who destroyed Mercer, the one who destroyed Byrd, the one who destroyed Chagaev or the one who destroyed Pulev. Totally your choice.

    As a gauntlet of fights pit him against the following at their absolute peak:

    Jack Dempsey
    Jack Johnson
    Max Schmelling
    Max Baer
    Joe Walcott
    Sonny Liston
    Rocky Marciano
    Joe Frazier
    George Foreman
    Ken Norton
    Ron Lyle
    Jimmy Young
    Michael Spinks
    Tim Witherspoon
    Mike Weaver
    Andrew Golota

    There is one caveat, clinching is punishable in excess. So say 4 clinches allowed, after that it's warning and then ultimately a DQ.

    I don't for one second doubt Wlad is a great. But I am beginning to question whether he was a great boxer, whether his skills are the skills of a great. So let's remove he one bit of controversy surrounding his title run, let's say he cannot clinch everyone someone comes near. With that caveat in place how do you see him faring over all and vs each individual. Wlad was extremely consistent so these can be over a period of 10 years or so.

    Discuss.
     
    lufcrazy, Dec 24, 2015
    lufcrazy, Dec 24, 2015
    #1
  2. lufcrazy

    lufcrazy requiescat in pace Full Member

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    :lol: I never say a bad word about Walcott or Young, I just wouldn't favour them here.
     
    lufcrazy, Dec 24, 2015
    lufcrazy, Dec 24, 2015
    #2
  3. Pugilist_Spec

    Pugilist_Spec Hands Of Stone Full Member

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    Liston/Foreman are debatable. Witherspoon may be problematic. Beats the rest.
     
    Pugilist_Spec, Dec 24, 2015
    Pugilist_Spec, Dec 24, 2015
    #3
  4. lufcrazy

    lufcrazy requiescat in pace Full Member

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    How do you see him beating Max Baer?
     
    lufcrazy, Dec 24, 2015
    lufcrazy, Dec 24, 2015
    #4
  5. Pugilist_Spec

    Pugilist_Spec Hands Of Stone Full Member

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    With his jab, right hand, left hook and physical strength on the inside.
     
    Pugilist_Spec, Dec 24, 2015
    Pugilist_Spec, Dec 24, 2015
    #5
  6. lufcrazy

    lufcrazy requiescat in pace Full Member

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    Yes but we aren't allowing clinches, so when Baer does get inside how will Wlad react?
     
    lufcrazy, Dec 24, 2015
    lufcrazy, Dec 24, 2015
    #6
  7. andrewa1

    andrewa1 Boxing Addict banned Full Member

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    I can't really abide by the clinching rule, though, it makes it too speculative. It's also unfair, Ali demonstrably clinched more than Wlad did, never really understood how Ali gets a pass for it and Wlad doesn't. We can't know how Ali would have done without clinching.
     
    andrewa1, Dec 24, 2015
    andrewa1, Dec 24, 2015
    #7
  8. lufcrazy

    lufcrazy requiescat in pace Full Member

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    Yes we can, without clinching Ali lost to Frazier, with clinching he won.

    Now all you answers are void. Please review your answers with the no clinching rule.

    Thank you.
     
    lufcrazy, Dec 24, 2015
    lufcrazy, Dec 24, 2015
    #8
  9. Pugilist_Spec

    Pugilist_Spec Hands Of Stone Full Member

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    KO1 Spinks? Spinks could have survived for a decision, especially against the more tentative post-2004 Wlad. Think it would have looked quite like Byrd 1. Don't think Wlad would crowd Spinks and go for the KO like Tyson did.
     
    Pugilist_Spec, Dec 24, 2015
    Pugilist_Spec, Dec 24, 2015
    #9
  10. Pugilist_Spec

    Pugilist_Spec Hands Of Stone Full Member

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    Also interested in what you think of a Wlad-Holmes match-up.
     
    Pugilist_Spec, Dec 24, 2015
    Pugilist_Spec, Dec 24, 2015
    #10
  11. Pugilist_Spec

    Pugilist_Spec Hands Of Stone Full Member

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    No clinching I'd only take Foreman and maybe Spoon to beat Wlad. Foreman would have been a nightmare with his relentless aggression.

    Liston would be too slow of foot IMO, young Wlad coud outbox him. Everyone else is simply overmatched.
     
    Pugilist_Spec, Dec 24, 2015
    Pugilist_Spec, Dec 24, 2015
    #11
  12. lufcrazy

    lufcrazy requiescat in pace Full Member

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    Over matched in what way?
     
    lufcrazy, Dec 24, 2015
    lufcrazy, Dec 24, 2015
    #12
  13. Pugilist_Spec

    Pugilist_Spec Hands Of Stone Full Member

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    Some physically, some skill-wise, some both.
     
    Pugilist_Spec, Dec 24, 2015
    Pugilist_Spec, Dec 24, 2015
    #13
  14. andrewa1

    andrewa1 Boxing Addict banned Full Member

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    Good point, I didn't think that fully through, Spinks probably gets underestimated a bit because of the Tyson debacle. Spinks might have lasted to a decision, I suspect he'd get ko'd along the way though.
     
    andrewa1, Dec 24, 2015
    andrewa1, Dec 24, 2015
    #14
  15. lufcrazy

    lufcrazy requiescat in pace Full Member

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    Break it down fight by fight.
     
    lufcrazy, Dec 24, 2015
    lufcrazy, Dec 24, 2015
    #15
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