Wlad's ko loss to Brewster = proof of glass jaw?

Strip away the the "heavyweight" name, and, practically speaking, you have fighters belonging in two different weight classes fighting, by and large, different weight class sized opponents. That's why Frazier having a better chin P4P is a much more plausible argument.

Frazier's style, at his dimensions, wouldn't have worked for 50+ fights against bigger heavyweights without being knocked out multiple times, either.

As you mentioned, the accumulated mileage of a much shorter career that mirrored that of a modern Cruiser who makes a selective Heavyweight campaign burned him out. It's not an apples to apples comparison to a guy who fought big heavyweights for 20 years.

 

Forty pounds ... measure 175 pounders fighting 147 pounders to draw a comparison of body weight .. Ray Leonard vs Bob Foster .. it is a huge difference ..

 

thats weight difference, not proportions.

the weight divisions are set around proportional differences, not arithmetic differences as you are suggesting.

 

My point is that a 204 pound Frazier weights 80 percent of a 243 pound Wlad. A 147 pound Leonard weighted 80 percent of a Bob Foster. The weight difference, forty pounds would be comparing a 135 pounder to a 175 pounder.

 

In Ring's 1939 Annual heavyweight rating (below champ)...

1. Galento
2. Pastor
3. Nova
4. Farr
5 Schmeling (in the last year of his real career)
6. Paychek
7. Burman
8. Barlund
9. Toles
10. Savold

I'm not picking Galento, let alone Savold, Burman, Barlund, Toles, Nova, Paychek, Farr or old Schmeling head to head over any of the following from 2014.

1. Povetkin
2. Stiverne
3. Fury
4. Pulev
5. Jennings
6. Wilder
7. Glazkov
8. Perez
9. Arreola
10. Chagaev

In 1960, Liston was number 1. Number 2 was Johansson. I'm taking Povetkin, Fury, Pulev, Jennings, Wilder and Chagaev over Johansson. 1960 included such non-entities as Henry Cooper (when was the last great 188 pound power punching left hooker in the division?), Mike DeJohn, Robert Cleroux, Miteff, Richardson and Erskine. Not a one of those bumps Chagaev out of the way for the number 10 spot in 2014.

1970, in the heart of heavyweight boxing's glamour era required an aged Cooper, an almost dead Liston, Urtain and Jose Luis Garcia to even construct a Top Ten.

1980 found an embalmed Ken Norton in the Top Ten along with Leon Spinks (at #3!), Marty Monroe, Bernardo Mercado and a hype job in Cooney at #2.

Are you really going to argue that Wlad's era was exceptionally weak?

 

Great post.

Povetkin would've made a fantastic highlight reel out of "Two Ton". Hell, I'd pick Chagaev over him too.

 

Looks gassed to me.

 

yeh it wouldnt. u still dont get it. u never will at this rate. weight divisions are set around body proportions, not arithmetic differences.

 

Louis dispatched his foes in spectacular fashion and boxed so beautifully he had books on how -to -box written after him.

Ring Fighter of the Year 4 times. Wlad - zero times.

His rematch against #2 Bob Pastor was nominated Ring Fight Of The Year. 1939 ... If there was such a thing as 'Worst fight of the year' Wlad would have earned top draw every year without fail. He never beat a top level opponent without looking like a total disgrace with his excessive cheating.
Its real telling that he couldn't dominate or impress during the worst HW division known to man and had to have the system rigged against C-level opponents in order to succeed.

Louis won Ring Fight Of The Year 5 times. He was clean and clinical in all of his fights. 1939 he knocked off 4 contenders , 2 of them checking out in the first round. The following year he knocked off another 4 contenders because thats what greats do in a weak era.
But still better than Wlad era since it had movers with bags of stamina and two fisted hand combo punchers.

Wlad era had slow , single hitting , non athletic , turtle footed bums.

 

... against a string of guys that you would have absolutely shat in your pants over, had Wlad faced them as fighters. Hell, even Mormeck and Leapai would probably be competitive with, if not beat, many of the names on Louis' list.

 

He just seemed to tense so terribly when put under pressure and out of his comfort zone. More mental than strictly chin or stamina. When you're panic you will gassing out no matter what and you won't be able to handle punches coming at you.

In the Joshua fight I think Wlad handled himself much more like a pro, so he seems to have matured as a fighter sometime between Brewster and Joshua.

 

Brewster is a big-time puncher. He hit Wlad with some hard hooks and body shots. Manny Steward and Klitschko think something was wrong with Wlad's body on that night. Never saw a fight end that way.

Wlad chin was neither good or bad. It was average.

Also how Brewster got up from that bomb of a right hand in round four, I'll never know.

 

At this stage, no one should be shocked that you miss the entire point of a discussion but just to enlighten you, what is being discussed is excellence of results not excellence of entertainment. Were the latter the point of discussion, I would whole-heartedly agree, Wlad's sort of steady domination is not "must see" viewing.

 

I still think Wlad siezed up that night because he fought at too high a pace and, as you said, was burning up with nervous energy. Major gassing episode.

 

No, I made my point. You cannot articulate yours. Step it up. What is your point and how is it relevant to Frazier's chin , Wlad's chin or comparing them ?