Wlad's p4p ranking

Sure - however you also need to consider how skilled the rest of the competition are.

Dominating weak competition isn't as good as consistent narrow wins against exceptional competition.

The problem here is in how you determine how good the division is. Some people say that the heavyweight division is awful currently. Others say that it only looks bad because the champs are so dominant.

I think when you are trying to compare how talented one division is to another, it gets fairly subjective. You can, however, sometimes apply judgement by seeing how boxers who move between the divisions succeed. Although that isn't a sure measure either.

We can look at two reasonably successful cruiser champs, Haye and Adamek, having recently gone up the heavy division - while they are a long, long way from being the real champions of the new division, they are definitely within the top ten.
But then how good is the cruiser division anyway?

At some point it becomes all subjective.

 

How? Not sure the word naive is relevant.

A 250lbs and 350lb fighter compete in the same division, it makes no odds.

It's not actually a comparison per pound of your bodyweight, it's a way of comparing those fighting in different divisions.

How they would be if all the same size is what P4P is referred to as, but isn't really the essense of it. You aren't a better Middleweight because you weight 158 rather than 160 but are of the same quality.

 

Hard to disagree with you Rushman. My main point is how people take the term "pound for pound" too literally sometimes.

 

Exactly. That's what I tried to say in my previous post.

 

I'd have Wlad in the top 10 easily. I'm not even his biggest fan, but regardless of his size, he has completely dominated the division since 2004. Donaire has an immense set of skills, but there's no way you can justify putting him above Wlad P4P after 2 great KO's. :rasta

 

To be honest I almost agree with you, but I think there is a difference between fighting our of your division and being small for your division.

Wlad is a big Heavyweight, but he fights Heavyweights not Light Heavyweights. That's the distinction.

It's a difference of opinion in a subjective topic, no need to call me naive.

 

Just seen how badly this reads but don't have the time to edit, anyway:

Sounds like a copout, but different era's. Bob get's more credit only because he wasn't really a Heavyweight. He was impressive at MW and LHW as well as HW, giving him a better P4P ranking. If all his work was at HW, I can see why you would take his weight into account, but IMO it wouldn't be too relevant in an unlimited division. If you aren't as effective in your division (not the same as handicapping yourself moving up looking for challenges) as someone else I don't think weight can be a mitigating factor in a P4P list.

If someone spends their career at Heavyweight I don't think 250 or 300lbs matters. They would get credit for moving up to take on 'naturally' bigger guys of course, in the case of Haye for example.

There are both benefits and negatives to increasing weight beyond a certain point, so it's not as simple as more weight = need to do more for same position.