Wlad's p4p ranking

Discussion in 'World Boxing Forum' started by lufcrazy, Jul 5, 2011.


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  1. bballchump11

    bballchump11 2011 Poster of the Year Full Member

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    I agree with you (except the Marquez part), I was just explaining to him about the difference
     
    bballchump11, Jul 5, 2011
    bballchump11, Jul 5, 2011
    #31
  2. bballchump11

    bballchump11 2011 Poster of the Year Full Member

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    no Hearns and Williams are still the same weight as their opposition. Hearns weighed less than Leonard when they fought. When Wlad fights, it's like Hearns fighting a guy a few weight classes below.
     
    bballchump11, Jul 5, 2011
    bballchump11, Jul 5, 2011
    #32
  3. brb

    brb Boxing Addict Full Member

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    It might be sketchy, but I'm not big on Martinez or Donaire.

    1) Pac
    2) Martinez
    3) Wlad
    4) Wonjongkam
    5) Donaire
    6) BHOP
    7) JMM
    8) Ward
    9) Bradley
    10) Bute
     
    brb, Jul 5, 2011
    brb, Jul 5, 2011
    #33
  4. bballchump11

    bballchump11 2011 Poster of the Year Full Member

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    Where did you rank Montiel and Paul Williams before their fights with Sergio and Donaire?
     
    bballchump11, Jul 5, 2011
    bballchump11, Jul 5, 2011
    #34
  5. kirk

    kirk l l l Staff Member

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    I have him ranked in the top 10 because of his longevity and his utter domination of his opponents, yes, his size helps him, but you cant punish big fighters by keeping them out of the list when putting together the best fighters in the world, when someone is putting a run together like wlad is, imo, just because hes big.

    If he was just scrapping by opponents on his long reign, then I could understand, but the fight in which he loses two consecutive rounds in a row is rare, let alone actual competetive fights.

    1 - Pac
    2 - Mayweather
    3 - Martinez
    4 - Donaire
    5 - Wlad

    I really dont have a top 10 p4p because after Wlad I really dont have much conviction for any fighter for a certain position.

    So just for me personally, rating on achievements/legacy, what have you done for me lately, ability, combined with a sort of head to head face off that one does if all fighters were the same size, I find nobody worthy in my eyes to be ranked over wlad at this point. What he may lack in someone may or may not beating him if they were the same size (say, gamboa) is outdone by what hes putting together legacy wise. And I think Wlads ability is top notch. It may very well be fine tuned now to be the bigger man, but thats because hes playing to his strengths, and cant fault him for that. There are plenty of big men out there, some bigger then wlad, that havent had 10% of the success hes had, because they dont have the ability.

    imo
     
    kirk, Jul 5, 2011
    kirk, Jul 5, 2011
    #35
  6. jeffjoiner

    jeffjoiner Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    I get what you are saying and it's a valid question to pose. Similar to "is a guy who hits 40 homeruns but only a .200 average a good hitter?" It depends on perspective.

    Personally, I think if he were to ever face a fighter who came forward, threw punches and took away his physical advantages by getting inside and doing work (like an Arreola) he would have problems. He did with both Peter and Sanders in the past, so it's likely to happen again.

    In other words, I believe Wlad wins based much more on physical advantages than skill and have him rated number 8 in my pound for pound rankings.
     
    jeffjoiner, Jul 5, 2011
    jeffjoiner, Jul 5, 2011
    #36
  7. brb

    brb Boxing Addict Full Member

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    I think I had PW at 4.

    Montiel 6.
     
    brb, Jul 5, 2011
    brb, Jul 5, 2011
    #37
  8. cesare-borgia

    cesare-borgia Übermensch in fieri Full Member

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    1.pac
    2.martinez
    3.donaire
    4. marquez
    5.wlad
    6. hopkins
    7.vitali
    8.bradley
    9.gamboa
    10. froch
     
    cesare-borgia, Jul 5, 2011
    cesare-borgia, Jul 5, 2011
    #38
  9. lufcrazy

    lufcrazy requiescat in pace Full Member

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    The guy moved up to 175 beating virgil hill. We all saw what happened when he fought the naturally smaller roberto duran, and that's a top 10 atg we talking about there.
     
    lufcrazy, Jul 5, 2011
    lufcrazy, Jul 5, 2011
    #39
  10. lufcrazy

    lufcrazy requiescat in pace Full Member

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    Please quote where I said that.
     
    lufcrazy, Jul 5, 2011
    lufcrazy, Jul 5, 2011
    #40
  11. bballchump11

    bballchump11 2011 Poster of the Year Full Member

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    How can you not rate Sergio and Donaire a lot higher after those wins?
     
    bballchump11, Jul 5, 2011
    bballchump11, Jul 5, 2011
    #41
  12. grouche

    grouche Guest

    Wlad is #2 p4p according to boxrec. Do you have issues with this?


    1 Manny Pacquiao 1441 53(38)-3(2)-2
    2 Wladimir Klitschko 1320 56(49)-3(3)-0
    3 Vitali Klitschko 1214 42(39)-2(2)-0
    4 Bernard Hopkins 1020 52(32)-5(0)-2
    5 Sergio Gabriel Martinez 955 47(26)-2(1)-2
    6 Juan Manuel Marquez 901 52(38)-5(0)-1
    7 Timothy Bradley 859 27(11)-0(0)-0
    8 Lucian Bute 849 28(23)-0(0)-0
    9 Andre Ward 753 24(13)-0(0)-0
    10 Jean Pascal 741 26(16)-2(0)-1

     
    grouche, Jul 5, 2011
    grouche, Jul 5, 2011
    #42
  13. skier47

    skier47 Guest

    I didn't say anything about you being a hater. You strike me as kind of slow and lacking in education but certainly not a hater. By the way, I'm a white Canadian so the correct description of me is a canuck; not a 'Niga."
     
    skier47, Jul 5, 2011
    skier47, Jul 5, 2011
    #43
  14. lufcrazy

    lufcrazy requiescat in pace Full Member

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    These are all the reasons I have him as a top 15 heavyweight.

    I mean what does p4p mean? I take it as skillset without having size as a factor. And when I think of wlad's skillset it's based entirely on his size. Clearly a smart choice because he's the king at the moment. But does this make him more skillful than say gamboa? Or is the skill in that he uses his size?

    I still have him number 6 but it's mainly due to legacy kinda like pong.

    And although I rank him there i'm not convinced he is one of the 6 most skilled boxers today.

    Hence the thread :)
     
    lufcrazy, Jul 5, 2011
    lufcrazy, Jul 5, 2011
    #44
  15. lufcrazy

    lufcrazy requiescat in pace Full Member

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    Yeah you went on bout me having no love and getting down on one knee and praying he'd lose etc.

    Got a first class mathematics degree and pgce secondary mathematics qualification under my belt. I'm sure you can put two and two together and guess what that makes me right?

    Yeah i'm a white guy from north england. I just can't respect fanboy types who jump to ridiculous conclusions without knowing someone. Today on esb i've placed wlad in my top 15 atg, i've spoke about him as the best heavyweight for 5 years, i've compared him to past greats in the face of laughter. I've also ranked frazier ahead of him and questioned my placement of him in my top 6 p4p. But idiots like you wanna call me a detractor and biased etc. So I can't really be arsed with you and make baseless assumptions myself, like you being a black american for instance.
     
    lufcrazy, Jul 5, 2011
    lufcrazy, Jul 5, 2011
    #45
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