Worse Chin: RJJ or Lennox Lewis?

Discussion in 'World Boxing Forum' started by paulfv, Aug 13, 2007.


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  1. Vanboxingfan

    Vanboxingfan Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    One of the best post on this thread, adds some much needed perspective to the whole picture.
     
    Vanboxingfan, Aug 14, 2007
    Vanboxingfan, Aug 14, 2007
    #46
  2. paulfv

    paulfv Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Well said. The 8 minutes after GJ sparked RJJ were pretty damn eerie.

    RJJ did avoid punchers, IMO.

    Corrie Sanders has said that Lewis told Sanders himself that Lewis ducked him. I could see that, as Sanders had the power and speed to take out the chinny Lewis.

    I know Lewis also avoided Byrd, but Chris was hardly a power puncher.

    Lewis used the "jab-and-grab" very effictively against Tua, as well as in the early rounds with Tyson. I believe he also used this strategy effectively against Holyfield, but I'd have to go over my tapes to be sure.

    After Manny Steward helped McCall deck Lewis in their first fight, Manny then went on to help Lewis learn the chin-hiding, clinching style which allowed Lewis to regain and retain his championship.

    Props to Manny for teaching Lewis how to clinch, and props to Lewis for understanding and working with the inherent weakness of his soft jaw.
     
    paulfv, Aug 14, 2007
    paulfv, Aug 14, 2007
    #47
  3. DamonD

    DamonD Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    This one I often like to dispell as a bit of an urban myth.
    About a year and a half back I took the time to actually watch the whole fight and count all of the clinches and posted the findings here.

    End result? 26 clinches, spread over the twelve rounds.
    The highest was round two, with 5.

    And most of them were positional ones, where Lewis would reach out, grab Tua, turn around (switching places on the ropes), and release, all in the space of about a second or two without the referee having to break it up.

    Lewis's first 'proper' clinch, the hold on and wait to be seperated type, didn't occur until the 10th round.

    If anyone doesn't believe me, just go check the tape like I did :good
    Lewis beat Tua with movement, not clinching, and that eternal kryptonite reset button of Tua's entire career - a consistant jab.
     
    DamonD, Aug 14, 2007
    DamonD, Aug 14, 2007
    #48
  4. aliwasthegreatest

    aliwasthegreatest Well-Known Member Full Member

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    owned
     
    aliwasthegreatest, Aug 14, 2007
    aliwasthegreatest, Aug 14, 2007
    #49
  5. paulfv

    paulfv Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Here's an article from before the Tua-Lewis fight:

    http://espn.go.com/boxing/columns/graham/862916.html


    The important part of the article:


    Oliver McCall shocked us all in 1994 when he knocked out Lewis.
    This content is protected
    mature into the boxer he is today by teaching him to
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    .

    Lewis' trainer,
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    .


    I know it's a bitter pill to swallow, but this is common knowledge to any serious fan or reporter of the sport -- Lennox Lewis was a "jab-and-grabber" of the highest order, helping set the stage for the John Ruiz' and the Wlad Klitschko's of the world.

    Everything Manny is teaching Wlad about clinching he had taught Lewis. The only differences are that, in Wlad, Manny has a fighter with a better chin (no one punch KO/TKO losses, never counted out) and a better offensive arsenal (Lewis wishes he could throw a left hook like Wlad) than he had in Lewis. So whatever adjustments he has to make with Wlad, he had to make equal or greater adjustments with the chinnier, more-offensively-limited Lewis.

    As the trainer of the McCall who TKO'd Lewis in 2 rounds - with 1 punch - nobody was more aware of Lewis' jawbone fragility than Steward. That he was able to so successfully hide that glaring weakness and help his man reign for an extended period of time tells you just how great of a trainer ES really is.
     
    paulfv, Aug 14, 2007
    paulfv, Aug 14, 2007
    #50
  6. Fab2333

    Fab2333 Needs to Get It 2Gether Full Member

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    :deal
     
    Fab2333, Aug 14, 2007
    Fab2333, Aug 14, 2007
    #51
  7. Drexl

    Drexl Your Hero Full Member

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    So you believe an article written before the fight by Tim Graham (who?) over WHAT ACTUALLY HAPPENED IN THE FIGHT?

    Jackass. :patsch
     
    Drexl, Aug 14, 2007
    Drexl, Aug 14, 2007
    #52
  8. Vanboxingfan

    Vanboxingfan Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    My thoughts exactly!!
     
    Vanboxingfan, Aug 14, 2007
    Vanboxingfan, Aug 14, 2007
    #53
  9. Stewbear

    Stewbear Active Member Full Member

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    Yes Jeremy Williams had him on the floor many times in training, as he used his Judo skills to THROW him down.
    Now im sure you already know this so you must be a liar and therefore have no credit on ESB.
     
    Stewbear, Aug 14, 2007
    Stewbear, Aug 14, 2007
    #54
  10. Lacyace

    Lacyace Forever Knight Full Member

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    I don't like the options. Neither boxer had a weak chin. Who had the worse chin? Lewis.
     
    Lacyace, Aug 14, 2007
    Lacyace, Aug 14, 2007
    #55
  11. The Kurgan

    The Kurgan Boxing Junkie banned

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    Ridiculous. You're relying on axioms rather than empirical evidence. WATCH Lewis-Tua and COUNT the clinches, rather than rely on preconceptions.
     
    The Kurgan, Aug 14, 2007
    The Kurgan, Aug 14, 2007
    #56
  12. barneyrub

    barneyrub Well-Known Member Full Member

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    Aug 2, 2004
    He didnt clinch Tua.
    Id love you to point out a fight where he lunged in and grabbed, leaned and spoiled like Wlad did to Peter. If you look at the Tyson fight it was actualluy Tyson that was holding!
     
    barneyrub, Aug 14, 2007
    barneyrub, Aug 14, 2007
    #57
  13. vonBanditos

    vonBanditos MĪƒderator Full Member

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    As already mentioned, I don't think either of those are real. I do, however, believe that Lewis was knocked down by Brewster.
     
    vonBanditos, Aug 14, 2007
    vonBanditos, Aug 14, 2007
    #58
  14. ChrisPontius

    ChrisPontius March 8th, 1971 Full Member

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    Some people see only what they want to see. Instead of watching the fight and counting the neglible amount of clinches, he relies on some article written before the fight. Ignorance at its best. Lewis moved for 12 rounds, boxed Tua's ears off to the point that Tua had little interest of coming forward and it had nothing to do with clinches.
     
    ChrisPontius, Aug 14, 2007
    ChrisPontius, Aug 14, 2007
    #59
  15. Curtis Lowe

    Curtis Lowe Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Both of these very old rumors have been dismissed. He never sparred with Ruiz and Williams became so frustrated in sparring that he tried a hip toss on Lewis and as usual...failed.
     
    Curtis Lowe, Aug 14, 2007
    Curtis Lowe, Aug 14, 2007
    #60
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