Absolutely brilliant answer and exactly the type of answer i was looking for. I dont really want to add anything, it was so good, but i will also point out the fact that he competed so well past his best in the 90s era, and he beat the man most people pick as no 1 of all time by a dominant knock out. Larry definitely joins Evander and Vitali on the back of this post as one who has a legitimate claim as greatest ever. I wonder how many guys will end up with a legitimate claim. I think it might come in as high as 10 or 12 but it will be interesting to see.
I can't be arsed to try justifying it, but Sugar Ray Leonard i think can definatley be considered, depending on criteria
I cant see it, he never fought as a heavyweight! Pound for pound might be a different story, but he must fail this criteria.
I nominate Jeffries. Despite little boxing experience, he never lost a fight until he retired. He decisively beat several hall-of-famers and more impotant, he beat every significant fighter of his time. Only after a 5 year lay off, he lost to another all-time-great who was at his peak. To me, Jeffries' run is very impressive and despite having lost under less favorable circumstances, he still holds an aura of invincibility in my eyes, when fighting under the ruleset of his time. A similar argument could be made for Marciano.
I agree that both are good answers. Both do definitely have cases, for the simple fact that they beat and dominated the very best fighters of their time. They were never beaten adn that is the name of the game. In fact, in reality they never really had any controversial calls go in their favour! I know some minorities say otherwise, but really they dominated their time. They also fought everyone who gave them a challenge twice, to prove the first win was no fluke. Both trained as hard as anyone and simply could not do any more in their time, than they did. It simply would not have been possible (okay, Jeffries could have fought Johnson and Rocky could have fought Valdez, but both had key losses at the time those fights were prominent). In jeffries case, he has physical statistics which are still solid, even today in the superheavyweight era. Obviously the Johnson loss means nothing, as he had a 7 year break and still went 15 rounds (let us not forget that this would have been a ND draw if we only had 12 rounders, like many other fights today or back in the day). If anything that effort was simply astonishing. And the fact that the Rock resisted all temptations to come out of retirement also shows his mental toughness and determination. I think that both of these fighters have an argument as the greatest ever. By my count that makes Vitali, Rocky, Holmes, Jeffries, Evander and of Course Ali and Louis.
Harry Simon was the greatest light middleweight ever. Beat a prime Winky Wright, beat a number of undefeated fighters, retired undefeated himself. Someone once made the argument to me that Khaosai Galaxy was the greatest Asian boxer ever, making the argument that he so ruined all of his opponents that none of them were able to accomplish anything after he beat them down and demoralized them.
Your OP never said anything about heavyweights. Just to make the worst greatest ever. If we're sticking to heavyweights only, I'm sure someone could make an argument for prime Brian Nielsen. Held his title for 7 years with about 20 title defenses, went 51 fights without losing only to lose once he was past prime. Defeated the great Larry Holmes. Defeated a man who defeated Tyson.
I saw Rocky Marciano in his prime....I love Rocky Marciano as a powerful puncher, but one small point...Jack Dempsey, as every boxing writer, who saw them both in their primes,invariably picked Dempsey to beat Marciano without hesitation...Dempsey, PRIME,was just as tough, hit harder with BOTH hands, and most importantly was about twice as fast...And as experience teaches us SPEED KILLS...Dempsey, is only known now , by his two bouts with Gene Tunney, when Dempsey was 32 years of age, over the hill. and most importantly, hadn't fought in three years...At least I value his peak greatness...Dempsey wasn't called a "man killer", for nothing.....,
New to forum, so take it easy on me.boxing fanatic, but i try not to pass judgement on fighters of the past,Louis,Dempsey,Marciano etc. i have noticed this thread seems to be missing one of my favorites george foreman,who would in my opinion won the physical battle with Ali, but unfortunately lost the physiological one. in his prime, fighters feared him, some were rumoured to avoid him, he was the Tyson of his era.Ali wore him down. Interesting to see how some people rate boxers, and have different scoring plans. in mine, i forgive foreman's loss of the war of words, i believe in his prime, he would have demolished Ali, and as most top tens start with Ali at the helm, foreman should be up there? take it easy on me you guys
Lennox Lewis should be on that list. A dominant world champion 3 times over a 10 year period. Lewis fought all styles and overcame them and beat every man he fought. He avenged his two losses in style. I count 13 world title claimants on his record, 2 of them cruiserweights, 3 if you count Holyfield. Wins over Holyfield and Vitali strengthen the argument specially the Vitali fight when he was 37 years old, I'd pick a younger Lewis to win this confidently.
Mike Tyson. He beat 4 reigning world heavyweight champions (WBC, WBA, IBF, and linear/RING) before he turned 22. And he beat several contenders. In style. After that his life turned to chaos, and much of that strife would have instantly destroyed most champions - or any celebrity - but Tyson carried on winning more than he lost, went to jail and came out and beat 2 more reigning world champions before his career really went under. Of course, he was never the same without his original training team either, and he was fighting on anti-depressant medication for all his fights from around mid-'88 onwards. That's like expecting him to fight tranquilised ! To think of all that he achieved with all those handicaps is remarkable, and we all know that before those circumstances were there he was UNBEATABLE, and KOing contenders every couple of months ! And .... one last thing - just look at the footage. :deal
:deal edit- I get what you're saying... Edwin Valero kind of implies he's something that many believe he's not.