Worst Refereeing Performances

In fairness, Duva didn't know the scorecards. How many fighters have ended up blowing a decision by taking off the last round?

 

Just watched Sugar Ramos vs Floyd Robertson... I think, last rounds of this fight will show you Who is the worst referee

 

[url]Samuel Obudate[/url]

 

As late as the 1970s, there were former world champions who were referees in important bouts even if they had not refereed bouts on a regular basis. Jersey Joe Walcott was the referee in the second world heavyweight between Muhammad Ali and Sonny Liston while Joe Louis was the referee in the second bout between Joe Frazier and Jerry Quarry. Walcott lost control in that bout between Ali and Liston, which ended in a controversial manner. In his second bout with Frazier, Quarry was taking a beating and rendered virtually helpless with Louis seemingly not knowing what to do. It got so bad that Frazier was gesturing to Louis to stop the bout.

- Chuck Johnston

 

Completely disagree.

The referee is not the timekeeper. His job is to assess if the guy is able to go on — if you’re trying to get a battered fighter’s attention and he’s starting off into space and will not respond, you stop it.

The object is to either outpoint the opponent or render him helpless. Chavez did the latter. He wins.

 

Everyone knew there was only a few seconds left. The ref seemed real quick to wave it off. They wanted to save Chavez's record, period. And you can't say I'm being paranoid because Chavez was known for getting dubious preferential treatment, like the Whitaker fight.

 

“A few seconds” can be enough to be hit again and end up dead. The ref doesn’t get to call timeout and go ask exactly how many, nor should he anyway. If the bell rings before he ends his count or finishes assessing the fighter, it’s over. Until then, it doesn’t matter how much time.

The ref doesn’t have one job for 11 rounds, 2 minutes and X seconds. He has his job for 12 whole rounds. And he did it in this case. Sorry your guy lost.

He was OUT on his feet. He did not respond to the referee. He looked off into space. The ref’s job is to stop it at that point.

A fighter’s job is to either outpoint his opponent or render him unable to continue. Chavez did that. That’s all that matters. 1 second left. 2 seconds left. 30 seconds left.

 

I guess it flew over your head that Chavez literally wouldn't have made it back across the ring in time to follow up with anything.

Or the part where he didn't do a standing 8 count, or have him take a step forward, he just looked at him and waved it off.

People need to agree upon a standard that all refs should follow because it seems like people will shift the goal post when it's a fighter they like. Most refs would have stopped Wilder vs Fury 1. He looked like he died.

 

I was living in Springfield at the time, 10 years old. Got to see them at the Stadium, will never forget it.

 

1) The referee isn’t the timekeeper. I guess that flew over your head. He knows it’s very late in the round. He cannot call timeout to ask if there is enough time for Chavez to get across the ring to throw another punch. YOU know that because you’re watching on TV with a clock. Go try it live. What if there’s 5 seconds left instead of 2? He does not know for sure exactly how much time there is and it’s not his job to know.

But you know what we know, through the miracle of technology? That he hit the canvas with 16 seconds left. After an 8 count there could have been 8 seconds left, depending upon the cadence. Is that not enough time for a world-class athlete to walk across the ring and land another punch that might be fatal? Yes, it is.

2) Meldrick is done, completely incapacitated, standing but not conscious enough to respond to the ref. At that point, the fight is over. That’s the OBJECT of boxing, to render your opponent unable to continue, not to do so within 11 rounds, 2 minutes and 50 seconds but after that the entire object changes. He’s out on his feet so the fight is over.

He did give him a count. And he saw the guy was out of it and waved it off. He’s trying to count in front of Meldrick’s eyes and he turns away and is staring off into space. He is not, on the levels of consciousness, awake and aware. Which means he is done. That’s when you stop a fight, regardless of if you THINK there MIGHT not be enough time for him to get hit and suffer permanent damage.

But it’s deeper than that. He’s seen the punishment the guy is taking. He’s seen Meldrick literally fall on his face earlier that round, which is a sign he’s losing control of his balance and limbs. He’s just seen Meldrick get hit and step into postholes, do the chicken dance. Those are all signs that any competent ref would take into account.

To say that fight shouldn’t be stopped is to not understand boxing IMO. I repeat, the very object of the sport is to render your opponent physically and/or mentally unable to continue. Meldrick would not be able to defend himself because he does not even register that there’s a referee counting in his face. Thus, it’s over.

Again, sorry your guy lost. Problem here isn’t ‘a fighter people like,’ it’s that your judgment is bent around you not liking Chavez and wanting him to lose. Not about what the literal object of the sport is, which was attained.

 

Didn't have **** to do with who I like or dislike. I respect Chavez as an ATG but he got a lot of preferential treatment. I noticed you completely ducked my point about the Whitaker fight.

They have the dude making the banging noise when there's only 10 seconds left on the clock. Are we giving the ref the benefit of the doubt that he didn't hear that? You keep running this narrative that tHe ReF iS nOt A tImE kEePeR but he DOES have to keep his ears open for the bell. Near the end of every round, literally every ref, professional or amateur, is listening for the clanging sound warning of the last 10 seconds and then for the final bell. Every ref is staying near the boxers to jump in with his hands out to halt the action. This applies to UFC, karate, wrestling, even the refs in non contact sports like basketball and football are keeping their ears open for that final buzzer.

To pretend like this isn't the case means you are either trolling, you don't watch sports, or you're a complete moron. I don't think you're a moron and you do watch boxing but it's pretty obvious you are being hard headed on purpose or blinded by bias.

There were LITERALLY TWO SECONDS LEFT. I REPEAT: CHAVEZ was on the other side of the canvas. He did not have time to follow it up and I find it very hard to believe of ref with his credentials had "no idea" the round was about to end in the last round of such a high profile fight.

You also ducked what I said about having a universal standard for what procedures to use for judging if a guy can continue. This is why boxing is such an ass backwards sport that can't make progress. Compare the ref of fury vs wilder to the ref of canelo vs angulo. Or Jacobs vs Quill in stoppage vs Diego Corrales getting thrashed and dropped repeatedly in a brutal slug fest with Castillo before pulling off a miraculous KO. If every ref is allowed his own discretion and the rules for when is a good time to stop a fight remain ambiguous we will always have arguments like this. It's bad for the sport. There needs to be a concrete universal rule set on what to do in that situation. Unless the fight goes the distance, the fate of a boxer should rest solely in his own hands and the rules of boxing. Is that a bad thing? If you think I'm being too harsh on the ref, then why not agree with me that there needs to be a universal standard when it comes to stoppages?

 

The ref knowing the bell is going to ring soon doesn’t mean he knows whether there are 2 or 4 or 6 seconds left. He just knows it’s not far off. He doesn’t do a countdown in his head, he’s got plenty else to worry about. That’s why the ref is not the official timekeeper ... because he has other responsibilities. Chief among those is to assess the fighter to see if he’s fit to go on — and Taylor clearly wasn’t.

In fact, you haven’t even suggested that Meldrick could have defended himself if the fight had continued because it’s plain that he couldn’t. Whether it’s 30 seconds into the first round or with 2 seconds left in the last round, the referee’s duty is to stop the fight if a fighter is out ... on his feet or otherwise.

No I didn’t address the Pernell Whitaker fight because it has nothing to do with this fight. It happened 3 1/2 years later — even if it happened 3 1/2 years earlier the referee should not consider it in making a decision to stop a fight because what happened in another fight isn’t pertinent to that decision. Is a ref supposed to let a fighter who is 100 percent not there mentally go on because in some other fight you didn’t agree with the judges? That’s completely ridiculous.

And no I don’t think there should be a universal standard for fight stoppages. The referee should have sole discretion on that. He’s in the ring with the fighters and he’s seeing it closer than you and me, he’s able to look into their eyes and get a feel for whether they are mentally there. He shouldn’t be handcuffed by some arbitrary rule that would force him to let a fight go on or to stop a fight.

 

From the time I first saw Chavez-Taylor until now I have always maintained that Lou Duva cost him that fight and Steele became the scapegoat. In the 12th, Chavez put him down late and Taylor got up. Taylor is buzzed and Duva - never the shrinking violet - gets up on the corner and starts screaming his gibberish to him (why scream anything? There is only 2 seconds left, right? And it seems everyone knows how much time is left, right?). And of course Taylor in his buzzed state is staring away at him. Steele gives him the 8-count and asks him - not once but twice - "Are you alright?" Steele didn't have to ask him anything. He could have made his judgement call right then and there. Had Duva not been up screaming instructions at Taylor, even in his buzzed state his eyes would have been fixed on Steele and when asked he would have given the fighter's reflexive answer to Steele's question and the fight would have continued and not another punch would have been thrown. The fault lies solely with Lou Duva for not keeping his mouth shut. And I don't want to hear, 'well, that's the job of the cornerman', because this 2 seconds left blame BS has been thrown at Steele long enough and Duva - who seems to always get a pass - should have known it too. And again, never, ever was Steele obligated to ask Taylor if he was OK. Not once and not twice. He was only obligated to give him an 8-count. I think he gave Taylor every chance.

 

The ref for the Earnie Shavers-James Tillis fight was awful. He kept clearly helping Tillis out when he got hurt bad. But when Shavers hurt Tillis and then they clinched, he was always super quick about getting Shavers away from Tillis. He also continually harassed Shavers about hitting after the bell, rabbit punching and those kinds of offenses, but never got on to Tillis for excessive holding or anything like that. I don't blame Tillis at all, just the ref.

 

Gainer vs Norwoood