Would 1998 Roy Jones defeat 1974 Muhammad Ali?

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by Bumnard_Hopkins, Aug 14, 2021.


LHW Roy Jones Jr vs Kinhasa Ali (12 rounds)

  1. Roy Jones Jr by Knockout

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%

  2. Muhammad Ali by Knockout

    34 vote(s)
    72.3%

  3. Roy Jones Jr by Decision

    5 vote(s)
    10.6%

  4. Muhammad Ali by Decision

    8 vote(s)
    17.0%
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  1. Loudon

    Loudon Loyal Member Full Member

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    I don’t believe so.

    Frazier was short and fast. He was Ali’s stylistic nemesis. He could get really close to him and close down the distance very quickly.

    Fury has a huge reach and he’s very fast for a man of his size. But he’d have found it extremely difficult to have gotten close to Ali in the way that Frazier did.

    It would have been a different fight altogether.
     
    Loudon, Aug 18, 2021
    Loudon, Aug 18, 2021
    #61
    mark ant likes this.
  2. Bumnard_Hopkins

    Bumnard_Hopkins Burger King banned Full Member

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    This super-evasive, unhittable, unclinchable Ali only exists in this forum's dreams.
     
    Last edited: Aug 18, 2021
    Bumnard_Hopkins, Aug 18, 2021
    Bumnard_Hopkins, Aug 18, 2021
    #62
  3. mark ant

    mark ant Canelo was never athletic Full Member

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    He was pretty sharp and pretty fast and far more elusive than anybody Fury has faced.
     
    mark ant, Aug 18, 2021
    mark ant, Aug 18, 2021
    #63
  4. Loudon

    Loudon Loyal Member Full Member

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    It’s not about that. It’s looking at whether Fury could realistically have done it against such an elusive target.

    He’s fast for his size, but nowhere near as fast as what Ali was.

    Prime for prime, Fury would have had huge issues with Ali’s footwork.
     
    Loudon, Aug 18, 2021
    Loudon, Aug 18, 2021
    #64
    mark ant likes this.
  5. Bumnard_Hopkins

    Bumnard_Hopkins Burger King banned Full Member

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    Why does this argument not apply below 200 lbs?

    If I pitted SRL (best weight 147 lbs) against Kovalev (LHW) would you say the latter's lack of speed would put him at a disadvantage?
     
    Bumnard_Hopkins, Aug 18, 2021
    Bumnard_Hopkins, Aug 18, 2021
    #65
  6. Loudon

    Loudon Loyal Member Full Member

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    Why can’t you distinguish between different fighters and different styles?

    Fury couldn’t clinch Ali like Frazier could.
     
    Loudon, Aug 18, 2021
    Loudon, Aug 18, 2021
    #66
  7. Bumnard_Hopkins

    Bumnard_Hopkins Burger King banned Full Member

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    How often do you favour a boxer three weightclasses below another because of "style" or "elusiveness"?

    Fury isn't a chump. He knows how to use his height and reach, two things he has more than anyone else.
    Quick on his feet and smart-enough.

    When was Ali unhittable? In the 60s against mediocre opponents? During the 70s he got decked a lot.
     
    Bumnard_Hopkins, Aug 18, 2021
    Bumnard_Hopkins, Aug 18, 2021
    #67
  8. Loudon

    Loudon Loyal Member Full Member

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    Loudon, Aug 18, 2021
    Loudon, Aug 18, 2021
    #68
  9. Loudon

    Loudon Loyal Member Full Member

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    Ali wasn’t 3 classes below.

    Just because Fury was considerably bigger than Ali, you can’t pretend that Ali vs Fury would have been like a WW fighting a SMW-LHW.
     
    Loudon, Aug 18, 2021
    Loudon, Aug 18, 2021
    #69
  10. Bumnard_Hopkins

    Bumnard_Hopkins Burger King banned Full Member

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    Why can't you see that an outboxer has a lot of trouble when fighting a guy half a foot taller and 7 inches longer?
     
    Bumnard_Hopkins, Aug 18, 2021
    Bumnard_Hopkins, Aug 18, 2021
    #70
  11. Bumnard_Hopkins

    Bumnard_Hopkins Burger King banned Full Member

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    The difference between Kinhasa Ali and Fury against Wilder (2) is 25%.

    The difference between a WW and a SMW is only 14%. So I underestimated the disparity.
     
    Bumnard_Hopkins, Aug 18, 2021
    Bumnard_Hopkins, Aug 18, 2021
    #71
  12. Loudon

    Loudon Loyal Member Full Member

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    I’ve already said that Ali would have had issues. But his feet, hands and reflexes were so fast, he could have beaten Fury to the punch.

    Read his comments regarding Cunningham.

    After their fight, he brought Cunningham into his camps to spar with him.
     
    Loudon, Aug 18, 2021
    Loudon, Aug 18, 2021
    #72
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  13. Bumnard_Hopkins

    Bumnard_Hopkins Burger King banned Full Member

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    Why does this logic fail between SRL and Kovalev? Surely speed overcomes everything?
     
    Bumnard_Hopkins, Aug 18, 2021
    Bumnard_Hopkins, Aug 18, 2021
    #73
  14. Loudon

    Loudon Loyal Member Full Member

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    Why are you doing these calculations?

    If Mike Tyson had fought Wladimir K, it would have been a small HW vs a very big HW. But it still would have been 2 HW’s facing off.

    Tyson vs Wlad wouldn’t be like someone fighting someone who was 3-4 weight classes below them.

    It’s not just about size.
     
    Loudon, Aug 18, 2021
    Loudon, Aug 18, 2021
    #74
  15. Loudon

    Loudon Loyal Member Full Member

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    Are you serious?

    Because you’re comparing 2 HW’s with a WW and a LHW.

    Although one HW might be significantly bigger than the smaller HW, they’re both HW’s.

    They’re both from the same weight class.
     
    Loudon, Aug 18, 2021
    Loudon, Aug 18, 2021
    #75
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