Would 88 Tyson have beaten Tokyo Douglas?

An emphatic YES.

Tyson came thisclose to winning anyways, with one uppercut, after getting thoroughly dominated for almost 8 complete rounds.

Peak "Iron" Mike Tyson annihilates Buster Douglas with 5 rounds.

"Tyson struggled pretty much with anyone who could take his punches and knew how to box..." so if Tyson struggled you're holding that against him. And if Tyson never struggled, you'd hold that against him too.

Did Tyson struggle with Jesse Ferguson? What about Mike Jameson? Jose Ribalta? Pinklon Thomas? Mitch Green? Tyrell Biggs? Do you see a pattern here? All the guys I just mentioned went 5 rounds or more against Tyson, which in your mind might mean Tyson struggled.

So you name Tony Tucker and James Tillis as similar styles to Buster Douglas. Tyson beat those guys. Tyson also beat Tyrell Biggs, Tony Tubbs, Larry Holmes, Carl Williams, Pink Thomas...guys with similar styles to Tucker, Tillis and Douglas.

 

I don’t believe so.

Mike came close to winning because Buster became complacent, since he was already giving Mike a hiding next to nothing.

Same thing happened to Tunney in the second fight vs Dempsey.

As presented on the night, Buster was a better fighter than anyone Mike fought in 88.

As stated by the OP, Buster brought in everything that the imagined prototype (to beat Mike) would need.

 

I think simply a non-partying until the morning of the fight with Bobby Brown and Japanese prostitutes 1990 Tyson would have actually won, let alone '88 Tyson.

 

I like his chances. Fresher, faster, much better corner advice as well as a lot more calm.

We tend to forget that Tyson was on the way back post Douglas with two quite impressive wins over Razor Ruddock and prison as much as a loss to Buster Douglas put paid to his chances of resurrection. If not for prison we would have got a better take on exactly what he had, Rooney or no Rooney. Things were looking good but Evander Holyfield was going to be the first litmus test of the second chapter.

In short his chance to make amends and shore up his reputation while still very young was gone.

It would be also fair to surmise he may have been noticeably better when he emerged from prison than his disciples believe. He was still only 29 in the big scheme of things.

 

Hed stand a lot better chance imo.
He'd slipped by 1990, his head was screwed.

 

Yup his Stewart n Ruddock series performances were still very solid many forget that. I do think prison did a bigger number on him than Douglas but still his fault for taking Douglas for granted. Much credit to Douglas for getting up and stopping Tyson too.

 

I still think Douglas is a very tough match up for Tyson, as I said in another thread. He has the size, ATG jab, and the style at his best to always trouble Tyson.

Do I think Tyson at his absolute best can beat 90 version of Douglas ? Yes I think he has a very good chance. But still Douglas at his best is still a very tough match up for Tyson to overcome.

The thing that doesn't make sense to me though, is that Tyson hadn't shown any evidence of slowing down in prior fights to the Douglas fight. Remember he blew away Ranked number 2 Carl Williams in 1 round, and in all his other fights he never showed any complacency. So why only for the Douglas fight ? Did the stars really just align that night for Douglas ?

 

Tokyo Douglas would have been game as hell, but '88 Tyson with his head movement, swift combinations and body punching (he hardly went to the body against Douglas if at all) would have been too much for Buster.

 

That is actually famously known as to what happened. Douglass mother had just died and he felt an emotional motivation he never arguably had at any other time in his career for that one moment. Look how he reverted back to form (or lack of form) against Holyfield.

On the other end Tyson was an un-prepared mess for that fight, partying literally until the early morning of the fight, even his team was a mess they had to use a rubber glove filled with ice because nobody on his team bothered to have brought an end-swell.

Tyson was on the personal downhill by then but he still had enough to beat Douglass had he focused just a bit more on that fight and Douglass not lost his mother.

 

Good points and the crux question is how far below par Tyson was if much of anything.

If partying til the morn and what not, as many claim, Mike would’ve looked a LOT worse than he did and likely fallen much earlier than he did.

I believe in 88, Mike boxed a total of less than 7 rounds. Mike at his perceived best, prevailed over the relatively short route. Intrinsically, the message was, the shorter the fight, the greater reflection on Mike - the opportunity to observe Mike over the later rounds was well removed.

Over longer routes, Mike was not as devastating and that much more vulnerable.

Who amongst the 88 group presented as an equal or better fighter than Douglas did on the night?

I believe none. Imo, they were all in fact inferior to Tokyo Douglas. So given that opinion, it would stand to reason that Mike might not have looked his “usual” self - in the face of competition superior to others he faced.

Then the question might be how inferior were the 88 crew? I personally would say notably inferior as compared to Tokyo Douglas. Interesting that the oldest and least prepared of the bunch, Holmes, lasted the longest.

Four rounds might not sound like a lot, but in Mike’s fast KO world, it was decent - particularly in view of the less than ideal context surrounding Holmes. We must remember, context exists for everyone, not just Mike.

Not close, but of the three, perhaps Holmes approximated most closely to Douglas in terms of size, reach and style. 90 Buster being a significant and far more positive extrapolation on 88 Holmes.

I just realised @AngryBirds started this thread.

AngryBirds of Tokyo. Nice ring to it. Just say’n’.

 

I think the dead mom thing was a factor against Holy, but I also believe there was some Bowe Syndrome. Winning the title and getting rich was his main thing.

 

People wanna say Tyson lost to some Japanese prostitutes … if he can’t handle them, how he gonna handle Tokyo Douglas?

 

The vast majority got it right here.

Douglas fought brilliantly, but Tyson did not have the same especially foot movement, combinations, body punching-he was visibly a bit off, & it was his own fault.
It was in part the lack of serious training, but it makes no more sense to think he would have appeared even worse if he was partying so hearty-& the reports are unambiguous, to doubt that requires contrary evidence...
Than to think we can necessarily even see all boxing & internal debilitation.

Tyson & Ali (adding zombiefying diet drugs) before fighting Holmes lost weight quickly to "look" very good.
But like Louis at the end-in his case a dramatic lack of power-or a skinny-regular weight person who is inactive & with help from a poor diet may be waiting for a massive coronary-not everything is at all visible.

What we saw in the ring, compared to his usual tremendous speed & coordination, was reduced compared to the usual near-otherworldly level.
Enough that for me like what Dempsey had lost by the Tunney fights, it was enough to tip the balance of power, meaning who likely wins.

 

This was about 4 days before the bout. Headlinereads "Tyson on a self-destructive path" and in the article Rooney, his former manager mentions how he's not even remotely interested and slowly slipping.
https://www.newspapers.com/clip/100459418/edmonton-journal/

https://www.newspapers.com/clip/100459770/edmonton-journal/