Would a retired Mayweather rank above Marciano, or not?

I don't think the weight differences were significant, no. Joe Louis weighed a lot more sure, but that extra weight was mostly fat. As you know, Joe weighed much less during his prime.

The Louis win is perfectly mentionable, but not when used to illustrate the big weight 'advantage' enjoyed by Louis. I feel that's being a bit disingenuous.

 

I was surprised how comfortable I was picking floyd.

Reading further arguments on this thread has convinced me.

I do think it's wrong to rate rocky above floyd.

It's been a good read gents.

 

:rofl:rofl:rofl:rofl

You say Marciano's resume was lacking then list Gatti, Ortiz and shot Mosley as reasons for Mayweather being superior. **** off child u know nothing of boxing.

 

Louis was 197 - 207 in his prime, significantly bigger than Marciano was in his prime.

And, no, his extra weight was not mostly fat :

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At the same weight v Walcott :

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Joe Louis was a legit heavyweight. 213 solid pounds. Not fat.

Why ?
Joe Louis was a top 4 heavyweight at the time, (rated #1 contender, I think), active and with a good record, and he was a legit 213 pound fighter.
These are just facts.

 

There you go...197-207. Prime weight.

There was no justification for the extra baggage vs. Rocky other than the man was older and had accumulated bodyfat.

It's not to say he was fat, but Joe Louis was carrying excess baggage in the form of fat. It happens to most older fighters, no shame in that.

Regardless, while he may have been still fairly formidable, he was long past his best, and came in a fair bit higher than his best weight.

Once again, to use this fight as an example that Rocky fought and beat much bigger guys to me is rather pointless.
If we still disagree, then that's just the way it is. :good

 

It's not pointless, it is factual.
You can take 10 pound 'excess' off the total if you want, the fact remains that Joe Louis was significantly bigger/heavier than Marciano.

 

It's also factual he was a mere shadow of his previous self. Fair enough?
Let's agree to disagree then.

 

Yeah the louis victory was legitimate in the context of the division at that time. It was a shortcut to the very top and rocky rightfully took it.

His top end resume is impressive and he cleaned out his era quite thoroughly. Not in terms of top ten but in terms of dynamic top contenders and that's more impressive imo.

Both guys are legitimate greats.

 

I agree that Joe Louis was a shadow of his previous self.

If we actually look back at the context where I first mentioned Marciano giving up weight, I was responding to the idea that Mayweather had better "pound for pound" victories.

I happen to think that a 184 pound fighter beating a 213 pound fighter is at least the equivalent of a lightweight beating a welterweight, in most cases.
It surely ranks alongside beating some guy who dehydrated himself yesterday afternoon to be eligible to fight you. In my opinion.

I would never intend to make that the crux of an argument to rank Marciano over Mayweather. I'm just saying that 184 pounds beating 213 pounds top-ranked fighter IS something to mention, even if the bigger guy is 37 years old and has accumulated about 8 extra pounds of body fat (although in fairness, most commentators were saying 203 pounds have proven to be too light for Louis by this juncture).

It seems that Mayweather gets credit for beating old men who are fighting above their prime weight anyway, but I won't labour that point any further.

 

Yeah, and there was a clear point to why I mentioned Joe Louis and Rocky giving up weight.
A point that may have been overlooked by a few in the stampede to tell everyone once again that Joe Louis was shot.

^ That's about all there is to it.

I agree with all that.

 

No probs...I guess we just look at things a bit differently in this regard.

As to your second point, that's why I instead chose to focus on what Mayweather did at 130. Oscar and Mosley were definitely past their best. (Imo, still worthy opponents though.)

Been good chatting to you, Legend...:good

 

Cool. :good

 

Probably summat to do with that ;-)

 

No on both of the last points mate :good But then again, I'd do neither with Ricardo Lopez either; still one of the best I've ever seen!

Boled/lined; exactly why I don't rate Floyd all that highly. Not faced many that can bother him. And IMO it's down to weakness of era rather than his 'greatness'.