Would Ali be too small for today's heavyweight division?

Its isn't just getting blown out by those 3 guys - he had to run , grab , cower and break the rules just to survive Sam Peter.

James Tony done better against Peter than Wlad did. Thats the ice breaker right there.


Then he had to throw an one legged , old, slow Tony the Tiger around the ring because he could not out box him.

A janitor with 4 years experience stripped him bare because he was not on his home soil.

He should have been DQ'd in every round against Povetkin.

He got deducted points for jumping all over Haye's back.

The list goes on and on

 

I firmly believe that most of the Ali detractors here either

(a) haven't seen pre exile Ali fight

or

(b) honestly don't know what they are looking at.

To claim that Lennox, or the K2 brothers could beat Ali just because they are behemoths is frankly absurd. Ali doesn't need to KO these guys to win, he could make each and everyone of them look slow and clumsy with his movement alone. Even more absurd is the claim that the 6' 0" , 195 lb Doug Jones " almost " out boxed Ali, and therefore the 6' 5" Lewis at 235, or the even bigger K2 brothers should also be able to.

 

The only quotes from Foreman in terms of modern Heavyweights
was about Lennox Lewis , thats even on youtube , where he said
that Lewis is the best Heavyweight of all time.

Than Foreman recently said that Luis Ortiz is his favorite boxer of
current times because he brings back the type of
"Sonny Liston / Cleveland Williams" Boxers and and reminds him of himself.

Foreman never said that Klitschko was the best and i read almost anything from Foreman the last years^^ Give me some
Link / Video or it did not happen

 

See Foxy, we can agree on something. I give you an AMEN on this.

 

It is no stretch to agree on someone as great as " The Greatest "

If only Leonard had had the guts to face all comers in their primes the way Ali did, instead of cherry picking his way through his career, we might even agree on that.

After the scare of the Duran 1 fight, he was never going to lay it all on the line against someone at their optimum weight and at the peak of their career. Don't worry about that.

 

Well Foxy your Objectivity becomes quite Subjective when it comes to RL. So I won't debate you on that on a Ali thread. Especially since we agree.

 

I am saying categorically, after Duran 1 Leonard NEVER faced a fighter at their optimum weight, at the peak of their career ( and even Duran's optimum weight was 135 ) and if you can't come up with someone better than the B level Kalule, i'd say you were the one being subjective.

PS I don't care what thread it is on, it's still boxing, and both guys shared the same trainer.

 

Most objective fight fans and world class boxing writers would disagree with you on Leonard. One of the greatest trainers in history thought he was an ATG.
That trainer was Emmanuel Steward. So your opinions are purely SUBJECTIVE. You and Red have a personal dislike for Leonard. It's very easy to see in the nonsense you write. I would love to know the reason though.

 

Wladimir Klitschko owned the heavyweight division for 7.8% of its Marquis de Queensbury existence.

His status as an All Time Great is not even in question.

 

Thats just word soup with little to no meaning.


Dariusz Michalczewski spent 6 years as the lineal LHW Champion. 6 years have passed since he was eligible for the Hall of Fame and i still don't see his plaque on the wall. Why is that?

He was a longer lineal Champion than Wlad was. If stringing defenses together is all that's required to be an ATG , why are Ottke , DM , Zsolt Erdei not in the HOF or considered All time greats?


The pampered Klitschko is an ATG merely cos he lucked out by existing in the worst HW division ever known to mankind.
It was the most shallow talent pool , not just in boxing, but in ALL of sports combined.
Rulling over glorified journeymen and bog standard cruiser weights is not what ATG champions are made of.
And to make matters worse , he would not have even stayed afloat of this pile of plankton were it not for the services of the great Manny Steward.

His era was a sad time for the sport and drove more people away than were brought in.
How many HW PPVs have there been since the year 2000?

Ali has around 20 hall of farmers on his record , with only 3 loses against them

Wlad has a record of 0-0-0 against greats and hall of famers. Yet he still lost embarrassingly FOUR times .

Only in a fantasy land does he belong on the same list as Ali.

 

Worst thread i have ever seen

 

Spot on with this post! I have respect for Klitschko, but he just compare to Ali. The same goes for Tyson, Yes he was 20 years old and explosive but he was knocking out bums.

 

his longevity is not in question.

that's not the same thing.


there is no titlist or champion in history, except for those who burned themselves out early or lasted just a short time for some other reason,who would not be able to share such a resume.

 

You young man are a fool. Not being gullible enough to believe marketing nonsense is far from hatred. I respect most of what Leonard did as a Welter, but i don't give him a free pass for his defeat to the ATG LIGHTWEIGHT Duran, his come from behind win against a weight drained Hearns, his controversial win against the faded Hagler, or his silly catchweight fights. The problem with gullible idiots ( like you ) is they need more gullible idiots to keep the marketing ploys going.

As for Steward, a far greater trainer than he could ever have been ( Eddie Futch ) remarked there was only ONE Sugar Ray, and it wasn't Leonard. I'd take his opinion over Steward's every day of the week and twice on Sunday.

The win against Benitez though was very very good.

 

Do does the length of time being linear championship determine the hall of fame. What a shallow point. Some guys in the hall were never lineal champions, others far less than 5 years.

Wlad was #1 for a decade. Few have done that in any weight class.

I happen to think Dariusz is borderline for the hall of fame. It's too bad Roy Jones would not fight him

.

Ali himself lost 5 times and got lucky calls from the judges. Wlad is still active. Time will tell if any of his opponents make the hall of fame, which is partly a North American based popularity contest. I happen to think Povektin and Byrd might get in the hall one day. Maybe Haye of he can win a big fight.