Would anyone pick Wilder to beat Liston??

He still looks pretty slow there for a man of his weight by modern standards. Williams is significantly faster and more "athletic" looking, and the sequences at the end, especially, where Liston is battering Williams look like they're being thrown slow motion through water. Undoubtedly heavy shots, but slow.

That said, Liston is obviously more durable and more skilled than Williams here, and diligent with his head movement. And he's very lean compared to what he'd look like later.

 

Fair

 

Wilder would likely reach for that excuse after Liston pulverises him - attaching himself to a completely unfounded, myth perpetrated by some less than critically thinking pundits.

It still wouldn’t be a patch on Wilder claiming that his bells and whistles robot costume drained him of all his energy before first bell.

Danger, danger, my idiotic robot suit is too heavy!

 

The lowest Liston’s reach was ever reported as was 80” for the Martin fight - displayed on screen prior to the fight.

Otherwise, Liston’s reach was far more commonly reported as being 84”’and somewhat less often as 82 1/2”.

I think there are sufficient visual comparisons indicating that Liston’s reach was at least 82 1/2” - and remember, his shoulder breadth and uncommon mitt size comprised that reach.

Freeze frame his jab at full extension - it looks sufficiently freaky.

 

Liston wasn’t “pretty slow” — if he were, Williams would’ve eaten him alive or at least given him more trouble than he did. If you look closely at the finishing sequence, Liston wasn’t wildly swinging for the KO; he was composed and methodical, taking his time because he had Williams hurt. Hand speed wasn’t the issue at all.

 

Agreed. The defining shots that Liston landed to set Williams on his way were not slow - the punches Liston threw in the very final stages were laid upon an already badly wounded Williams -

 

You’d have to look far to find two more superbly conditioned and sculpted HWs in the ring together - certainly a rarity among today’s SHWs.

People wax lyrical re Foreman vs Lyle, but this one has two big HWs also, carrying comparable, extreme power BUT engaging in fast, far more technical slugfest.

Just imo, THIS Liston, ‘59/‘60, takes apart both Foreman and Lyle as they presented/performed in their 1976 punch out - as compared to Liston and Williams, it was George and Ron who looked slow..

 

Liston is such an awesome defensive practitioner for a heavyweight. Behold from 2.55 where he plants his feet and tried to goad Williams into trying to time his never stationary head. Williams won't take the bait so he leads with a jab while ducking his head off the line and getting in closer and low. He blocks a couple of punches via good defensive positioning and when they separate he leads with another jab while ducking outside the line. This avoids the Williams jab and as he comes up he anticipates the Williams hook and blocks it with ridiculous ease by raising his right glove and forearm. He then jabs and moves in under like prior but this time immediately sways back looking to counter Williams response but Cleve pulls out of his uppercut just in time. Later he misses a hard slightly optimistic left hook and simply raises his right glove to catch Williams counter hook as he eases back out. The man had mad skillz and was always looking for those openings, bobbing, weaving, inviting, probing, feinting. He's deep in the conversation for technical greatness among the heavyweights. He's somewhat like Duran, so many people were late to the game regarding his defense and skill. The enormous power and force blinded them. This little dandy contained a lot more skill and timing than Foreman - Lyle which was a caveman type knock'em down and drag'em out type affair. A brutal survival of the fittest.

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Brother he’s slow, everyone can see that.

 

I just came here to say that I watched Serrano vs Taylor 3 live and heard the former unironically say "You saved my life, Jake Paul" while crying her eyes out after giving the worst performance I've ever seen.

Does it have to do anything with the thread ? I think not

Do I have to be the only poster in classic who is cursed with this information ? I THINK ****ING NOT

This is the same sport where the Heavyweight championship of the world decided the fate of WW2. I want to kill myself.

 

Excellent post. I'd go as far as to say, no fighter in history could've beaten that Williams except Liston.

 

But, but, but MODERN BOXING is better!!!!!!!!!! Drink the koolaid pal, embrace the cult!!!!!!

 

I have seen some ****.

Usyk is just a more skilled and advanced southpaw version of Ali. Loma is the most skilled fighter ever (I once had a back and forth with a guy on this forum that thought Loma was the best combat sports athlete ever, period). Tank beats Duran and GGG beats every MW ever except for Hagler, and guys from before the 60's were apparently too stupid to understand that having your hands up can be beneficial.

Like I get the need for a pushback of certain unchallenged beliefs, especially in regards to 60s-70s Heavyweights, people are just short of praising the way Liston wiped his ass the way they talk about his skills, the sudden Wayne Bethea craze a while ago was ridiculous too. But maybe don't say that "Zhang is a master of controlling distance and range" and would beat Frazier because of it, if you want to drive certain beliefs back. He ain't controlling ****, he's just a fat unathletic pork man with power, who boxes within himself because he is a ****ing plodder with no stamina.

The amount of times people confuse boxing within oneself with patience and skill is so ridiculous, you can tell who has and hasn't boxed when you hear their thoughts on fighters where the line between the 2 appears thin.

 

It's challenging times brother!