Would anyone pick Wilder to beat Liston??

Ah but I do.I know all about this stuff about fighters rehydrating by to 20 lbs.But honestly it is a
helluva stretch to believe that Floyd could have cut that much weight.

 

Ok so you are desparately ignoring the fact that Cleveland Williams was a terrific puncher who
caught Liston with some of his best punches but Liston avoided a knock-down,and went on to
beat Williams very conclusively.No doubt you find all these facts very inconvenient for your
bizarre notion that Sonny lacked a great chin and courage.
By the way, what exactly is the point you're trying to make re Sonny fighting on with a broken jaw ?

 

Please don't take the Lord's name in vain.I genuinely find this offensive.

Neither you,me nor anybody else could name, with empirical evidence , 20 heavyweights who could
definitely punch harder than Cleveland Williams.

Even if Berlanga could rehydrate by up to 20 lbs could he replicate the raw power of even a small
heavyweight like Floyd Patterson ?

So according to you Sonny achieving in 9 rounds what took Ali 15 rounds to accomplish means that
Liston's performance was less impressive than Ali's ? Hmm....perhaps you would like to go over that again.

 

Why? there are 168lbers who weighed as much as Floyd.

 

I could, in fact I'll do it now.
1-) Lewis
2-) Bowe
3-) Shavers
4-) Foreman
5-) Liston
6-) Dubois
7-) Zhang
Cooney
9-) Smith
10-) Lyle
11-) Wilder
12-) Anthony Joshua
13-) Ruddock
14-) Tyson
15-) Morrison
16-) Briggs
17-) Wladimir
1 Tua
19-) Bruno
20-) Sanders

Probably not. The point here is Patterson wasn't exactly towering over a guy that fights at SMW.

I think a guy that got put down by Ali taking everything Liston threw and standing on his feet is embarrassing. You do know Wilder would literally kill Wepner in the 1st round right?

 

This is non-sense.

1. Liston was shot and in his 40s when he fought Wepner.

2. He didn't remain on his feet. Liston knocked him down in the 5th. Ten rounds earlier than Ali "But Ali got a full 10 count lolz" What the **** do you think were to happen if the ref hadn't stopped the fight? Wepner was a mess, couldn't see, and couldn't defend himself. He wouldn't have made it anywhere near the 15th in that condition.

 

1. Nice job bringing up the age once the previous narrative of this being impressive died down.

2. Yup, and then Wepner got up. He got his face broken, cuts that required 72 stitches and he was still on his feet before he RTD'd. Almighty Liston couldn't keep Wepner down then failed to put him down again after a horrific beating. What would happen if the fight went on? Wepner would probably bleed out before Liston put him down again.

 

Surely the person making the claim Williams is a top 20 puncher should be the one to provide evidence for the claim?

 

Ok,what if there is.How many 168 lbs guys could replicate the raw power of Floyd Patterson.

 

It was impressive because of his age. Not in spite of it. Wepner likely doesn't see the fifth against a peak Liston.

So now we're faulting Liston because Wepner was in significantly worse shape against him than he was against Ali by round nine?

In your honest opinion (if possible), would Wepner have remained on his feet for another 6 rounds?

As for Wilder knocking out Wepner in the first, he would not have done it in his 40s. He needed 7 rounds to put away a generic club fighter, and even then it wasn't a KTFO, it was more of a "I'm bored,let's just go home" from the ref.

 

Would you like to prove that any boxer is in the top 20 punchers at a particular weight ? It's an
inexact science to say the least.The numerous accolades attributed to the power of Cleveland Williams's
punches are proof that Williams was a great puncher.Anyone who could take his punches and avoid
hitting deck had to have a first-rate chin.Please bear in mind I never stated that Williams was in the top 20
heavyweight punchers in history.The figure of 20 was referenced by the poster who I was replying to.

 

You really are guillty of hyperbole.Wilder literally killing Wepner in the first round ? Calm down mate, lets
keep the within the bounds of reason.
Yes there many guys in your list who I suspect are harder punchers than Cleveland but certainly not all of
them.
Should Joe Frazier be criticised for failing to drop Bonavena in their two fights while Jimmy Ellis dropped
Bonavena twice ?

 

Totally agree.

Trying to throw shade on Liston for the Wepner fight and by way of comparing that fight with Ali’s own bout vs Wepner some 6 years later is completely disingenuous.

Liston was already 38 yo per his official DOB but likely several years older against Chuck in reality.

Sonny was also a known alcohol and drug abuser who was found dead from a drug overdose just 6 months after the Wepner fight.

By the time Wepner fought Ali, he was 36 yo himself - 3 years older than Ali. Ali hit Chuck with some very good shots to finish it but Wepner was also clearly exhausted by the 15th round at any rate.

The fight vs Liston could’ve (should’ve) been stopped several rounds earlier but Chuck pleaded with both the ref and his corner to allow him several more rounds.

Liston famously remarked after the fight that he didn’t know who was more brave - Wepner or his manager.

 

We're faulting Liston because Wepner regardless of the shape he was in didn't get KO'd by his supposed mountain-toppling punches.

No, he would bleed out as I said.

Wilder has 50 times the mileage Liston had against Wepner.