Would Bowe 1992 Be too Much For Marciano ?

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by Fergy, Jun 28, 2019.

  1. Rainer

    Rainer Active Member Full Member

    883
    606
    May 2, 2019
    Louis was far more measured and patient in his approach than Tyson.Mike was trying to get you out of there from the get go.
     
    Fergy likes this.
  2. Seamus

    Seamus Devotee of the Little Red Book Full Member

    45,300
    18,018
    Feb 11, 2005
    In his prime? Isn't this a discussion of respective primes? Do you honestly think that Sharkey or Conn could handle Tokyo Douglas? Hell, I'd take Tokyo Tubbs over either one.
     
    ironchamp, Pat M, mrkoolkevin and 3 others like this.
  3. Fergy

    Fergy Walking Dead Full Member

    13,080
    11,560
    Jan 8, 2017
    Lol I agree with you Seamus ,it's the Toyko Tubby part that s made me laugh ..
     
  4. BitPlayerVesti

    BitPlayerVesti Boxing Hagiographer Full Member

    7,341
    8,775
    Oct 28, 2017
    If it's a discussion of fighters in the prime, then what does Dempsey fighting Sharkey when he was shot have to do with anything?
     
  5. Seamus

    Seamus Devotee of the Little Red Book Full Member

    45,300
    18,018
    Feb 11, 2005
    Which poster? I believe my response was that I couldn't pick a single non-heavy over Marciano.

    If your plan A obliterates the division and has you atop it for a very active 4 years, you are an ATG. When did Jack Johnson ever revert to a Plan B? When Ketchell, a guy he was literally carrying, double crossed him? He certainly didn't revert to it against Hart and didn't need it against the no-hopers he faced during his reign. He really never got over that "just active enough to win" Plan. Does low blowing Jack Sharkey constitute Dempsey's Plan B? It was the same plan he used against Gibbons so I guess it did. Marciano had the most basic Plan A that he executed in direct proportion to the skill and output of his opponent. He had great will but will is not a Plan B.

    A great Plan A is better than a mediocre Plan A that requires a Plan B.
     
  6. Seamus

    Seamus Devotee of the Little Red Book Full Member

    45,300
    18,018
    Feb 11, 2005
    I'll leave the Sharkey "win" out of it if folks stop referring to it as one of his great victories.
     
  7. HOUDINI

    HOUDINI Boxing Addict Full Member

    5,255
    1,271
    Aug 18, 2012
    You Seamust stated that Kovalev would have KOed Dempsey, Marciano and Louis. So much for your opinion on anything boxing related.

    Regarding ATG characteristics Johnson, Dempsey and Marciano exhibited these traits. Tyson failed every time he found himself faced with adversity against top opposition. This is the reason he is not rated near the very top
     
  8. 70sFan865

    70sFan865 Boxing Addict Full Member

    6,333
    6,573
    May 30, 2019
    Then why didn't he get Tillis out? Tillis wasn't huge, he wasn't that durable and he didn't hit very hard either. He was quick and elusive, which made Tyson trouble to KO him.

    Sometimes even the greatest punchers and finishers have a lot of problems beating his man. Foreman couldn't stop Young, same with Tyson and Tillis or Louis and Pastor. I don't expect Conn to beat Tyson, but he would give him much more troubles than "1st round KO".
     
  9. HOUDINI

    HOUDINI Boxing Addict Full Member

    5,255
    1,271
    Aug 18, 2012
    Dempsey’s win over top rated and prime Sharkey is an all time win. It’s the type of win that separates the typical fighter and an all time great champion. In a losing fight where he was staggered several times, cut and bleeding he came back with an all time body assault to KO the leading contender.

    Later Sharkey states this of Dempsey:

    “I never knew anyone could hit that hard”

    “Louis was the better combination puncher but punch for punch Dempsey hit harder”

    “When Dempsey hit you in the body it felt as if his fist was coming out your back”
     
  10. Rainer

    Rainer Active Member Full Member

    883
    606
    May 2, 2019
    Tillis was 41lbs heavier than Conn.
     
    Pat M and JC40 like this.
  11. 70sFan865

    70sFan865 Boxing Addict Full Member

    6,333
    6,573
    May 30, 2019
    So what? He wasn't big and durable compared to other HWs that Tyson destroyed. That's my point, not comparing Conn to Tillis.
     
  12. Rainer

    Rainer Active Member Full Member

    883
    606
    May 2, 2019
    Foreman had Young out on his feet at one point,"if he had sneezed he would have blown me over."
    Pastor obeying instructions to do so ran like a thief from Louis,it was named," Bob's Bicycle Act ," he stunk the joint out.Stung by the bad press he came to fight in the rematch and was obliterated.
     
  13. Rainer

    Rainer Active Member Full Member

    883
    606
    May 2, 2019
    You don't think a Tyson short of his prime, facing a guy 41lbs heavier than Conn is a factor?
    Let me ask you a question,do you think Tillis goes the distance with a prime Tyson?
     
  14. Eddie Ezzard

    Eddie Ezzard Well-Known Member Full Member

    2,299
    2,712
    Jan 19, 2016
    Absolutely. Given that at age 23 Holyfield was winning a title against a Hall of fame LHW (oh, there's the comparison with Marciano) while Rocky was turning pro, that at age 37 he was giving prime ATG 240lb Lewis all he could handle while Rocky was five years retired at that age, the comparison seems a bit harsh on Holyfield. Imo, Evander beats Marciano hands down on longevity, skills, quality of prime HW opposition.

    The knock against Holyfield is that he beat old former champions when old former champs were the staple diet of Rocky when he was champion. At least Holyfield beat former HW champions who were bigger than him. Rocky beat a 33 year old Charles who was a former middleweight that had been knocked sparko by Walcott several years prior and who had never got over killing an opponent. He fought a 42 year old former middle in Archie Moore who was subsequently beaten a year later by a 22 year old Floyd Patterson without Floyd tasting canvas. And he beat Jersey Joe who had had a hard life and was nearly 38.

    Yes there are asterisks over some of Holy's best wins (Holmes,Foreman too old; Tyson shot; Douglas fat) but there are some equally big caveats looming large over all of Rocky's most notable wins
    No he didn't. He chinned him while Sharkey was moaning about a low blow and had turned away. Sharkey went down looking for the DQ win. Tyson taking a beating from Douglas and then nearly knocking him out is every bit as impressive if this how you're measuring greatness. The difference is Tyson fought Buster who was determined to get up. Dempsey was fighting Sharkey who was determined to stay down.
     
  15. HOUDINI

    HOUDINI Boxing Addict Full Member

    5,255
    1,271
    Aug 18, 2012
    That hook Dempsey landed on Sharkeys chin would have flattened anyone. Bottom line Dempsey did not quit instead he surged to come back to win. A mark of all time greatness.

    Knocking a fighter down but going on to be koed two rounds later dies not count as a comeback victory. Sorry to inform you.