Would Bowe 1992 Be too Much For Marciano ?

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by Fergy, Jun 28, 2019.

  1. choklab

    choklab cocoon of horror Full Member

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    Aside from anything else somebody needs to prove a fighter could even exist in the 1950s like the 1992 Riddick Bowe.

    Those kinds of functional SHW men historically did not make a real impression at championship level until after the steroid boom.

    Im not saying Bowe was a drug cheat but I am saying his type of fighter did not come into existence until changes in training and diet made a real impact on sport science.

    A big man with that kind of workrate, advanced athleticism was probably not achievable until much later.
     
  2. 70sFan865

    70sFan865 Boxing Addict Full Member

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    But neither had his opponent out and Foreman actually lost his fight. Sometimes it's easier to say than done.
     
  3. Eddie Ezzard

    Eddie Ezzard Well-Known Member Full Member

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    No. And hitting a bloke in the in the bollocks doesn't constitute an 'all-time body attack', either. Sorry to inform you. Btw, why are you taking such an obnoxious tone with me? I haven't been rude to you. I haven't slapped your mother. I just have a different opinion on a fight that happened nearly 100 years ago. Seriously. Have a word with yourself.

    i never said Tyson's fight v Douglas was a victory, anyway. I just said if Buster had shown Sharkey's willingness to stay down, it would have been a win for Tyson. Tyson was unlucky, compared to Dempsey, insofar as his opponent that night showed terrific heart and desire to get up, Dempsey's opponent in the example you cite showed an inclination to go down and stay down, not uncharacteristic of the form he showed at other times in his career.

    Sharkey was nothing special anyway. If you're going to make so much of that win of Dempsey's, then I'll credit Tyson for coming from behind when way past his prime to kayo Botha. And Tyson didn't have to low blow and cheap shot him to do it either. Not that he wouldn't have. He just wouldn't have needed to against Sharkey.
     
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  4. janitor

    janitor Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    OK, I will play devils advocate here.

    Let's say that Jess Willard had enjoyed an extensive amateur career from an early age, and had come under the wing of a top notch trainer as a professional.

    Might he not have been developed into something that would not look out of place today?
     
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  5. mrkoolkevin

    mrkoolkevin Never wrestle with pigs or argue with fools Full Member

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    Maybe you clashed with him under his alter ego, Perry? It’s just how he is. He always got emotional whenever someone dared to challenge the classic boxing cliches or conventional wisdom.
     
    Last edited: Jul 1, 2019
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  6. choklab

    choklab cocoon of horror Full Member

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    Perhaps he would. Jess was an exception to the rule after all and in his prime, a lot better than people think.

    Like i said, historically, they had not made a real impression until the changes came along.

    Later there was an explosion of SHWs who could make an impact. It was too sudden.
     
    Last edited: Jul 1, 2019
  7. 70sFan865

    70sFan865 Boxing Addict Full Member

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    He would be one of the best Tyson wins.
     
  8. Rainer

    Rainer Active Member Full Member

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    Sharkey was too inconsistent.
     
  9. 70sFan865

    70sFan865 Boxing Addict Full Member

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    He was, but he was still better than almost all fighters than Tyson beat.
     
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  10. JC40

    JC40 Boxing fan since 1972 banned Full Member

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    More Rockista nonsense. Why isnt Holyfield comparable to Marciano as far as achievements go ?

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    As I keep stating ( and the Rockistas refuse to comment about or acknowledge ) Rocky only fought FIVE, YES five different men in heavyweight title fights. Holyfield managed to beat eight men. Holyfield has Rocky well covered in longevity, in overall class of opponents, and especially in the size and relative overall freshness of their opposition.

    Notice that Marciano doesnt make the top ten in any of the lists shown in my link as far as longevity, number of defences.

    I am still struggling to understand why a fighter who did so little from an historical perspective gets so overrated by his rabid fans. Rocky won the title off a short term champion who was the oldest heavyweight champion in history at the time. Rocky defended against elderly former middleweights Charles and Moore, Don Cockell and Roland La Starza. It just doesnt compare overall to the records of other so called great heavyweight champions.

    Cockell and La Starza are historical nobodies except to Rocky's incredibly blind fans. I would compare them to fighters like Richard Dunn, Coopman, Evangelista and other fighters considered poor opponents in say Ali or Holmes era. Walcott, Charles and Moore were all past their best and Moore and Charles were smaller men than Rocky as well as being former middleweights.

    From a logical perspective the adoration Rocky gets is hard to understand. I realise he was incredibly fit, tough and had no quit in him but so did Joe Frazier and he doesnt get near the love Marciano does from his fans.

    Cheers All.
     
    Last edited: Jul 1, 2019
  11. janitor

    janitor Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    It depends how you want to measure it.

    Holyfield has got it on volume and longevity, but Marciano has got it on consistency and dominance.

    When you start factoring in quality of opposition, you have to take into account Holyfield's losses as well as his wins.
     
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  12. HOUDINI

    HOUDINI Boxing Addict Full Member

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    You need to study up on Dempsey Sharkey. The ref saw no low blows. In fact he stated that the three blows prior to the KO were NOT LOW.

    NEITHER corner or fighter complained of low blows anytime during the fight.

    Sharkey was examined by the ref after the fight and no evidence of a low blow was found.

    The film of the fight was shown to reporters by Richard a few days after the bout occurred. Headlines afterwards....”Films of fight show body blows were legal”.

    Lots more info if you would ever take the time to look.
     
  13. HOUDINI

    HOUDINI Boxing Addict Full Member

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    JC40
    I’m not a huge Marciano fan but his 49-0 is a huge deal. No other hwt champion retired undefeated for the entirety of their career. One can nitpick all they want but if it were easy there would be others. Their are none.
     
  14. Seamus

    Seamus Devotee of the Little Red Book Full Member

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    Here is what I said in various threads...

    "I'm certainly not saying Sergey is a favorite but your dismissal is sadly and predictably ill-informed given Dempsey's actual record."

    "I can't pick a single non HW against Rocky h2h"

    So far as I know, I never made a prediction on Kova v Louis... and I would never pick Kova as I rate Louis #2 all time.

    So, unless you have a direct quote from me (not made in complete and obvious jest) stop misstating my stance.. And yes, we all know you are Perry. Same moronic, unoriginal takes. Same tired, old, regurgitated opining. A breath of stale air returned.

    And lastly, please tell us all when Johnson, Dempsey and Marciano displayed "these traits"? Crack open your Burt Sugar books. That's about as deep as you're capable of.
     
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  15. HOUDINI

    HOUDINI Boxing Addict Full Member

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    You know what you wrote. Don’t try hiding from it. Kovalev was your man until he showed himself to be a quitter.

    I’m not here to teach the unteachable.