Would Bowe 1992 Be too Much For Marciano ?

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by Fergy, Jun 28, 2019.

  1. Seamus

    Seamus Devotee of the Little Red Book Full Member

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    Quote what it is you accuse me of stating. If you make the accusation the onus is on you to prove it. Otherwise you are an intellectual coward.

    So, what is it, coward or liar?

    Either way, you've come back and immediately painted yourself into the corner in which you belong.
     
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  2. Eddie Ezzard

    Eddie Ezzard Well-Known Member Full Member

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    What are you on about? 'Neither corner nor fighter complained about low blows during the fight;? Sharkey was doing just that when he got kayoed, Don't worry about 'lots more info'. Just watch the film. While you're at it, have a look at the punch Dempsey lands, It does not look devastating on film, And Sharkey's reaction, flopping about like a fish out of water, was typically embarrassing.

    Love the bit about the referee examining Sharkey and finding no evidence of low blows. Seeing as you know it all, care to talk us through that and how the ref went about that. What were his qualifications to do so?

    Anyway, I don't think I'll carry on as you don't seem like you'll change your view in the face of evidence, There's none so blind as those who won't see, none so deaf as those who won't hear...

    And none so dumb as those who can't use the 'reply' tag. That's the giveaway, Perry could never work that bit of rocket science out, either.
     
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  3. reznick

    reznick In the 7.2% Full Member

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    The hook that lifts Sharkey off the ground doesn't look devastating on film? Huh??

    You seem to carelessly wave away any supporting argument for the punch not being too low.
    It's been examined on this forum many times and the idea that the blow was too low has been disputed with very good reason.

    Was the hook that Louis hit Sharkey with a low blow as well?
     
  4. Eddie Ezzard

    Eddie Ezzard Well-Known Member Full Member

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    No it doesn't look devastating at all. It only lifted him off the floor as Sharkey could be a bit prone to melodrama. The punch hits him in the face. It should have rocked his head backwards not lifted him up. Its like when men get shot in Westerns and they fall forwards off a building. Ridiculous. If you get hit by something hard, you generally move in the same direction that thing was travelling.

    I see absolutely nothing in Dempsey's form when he throws the punch to suggest it might be devastating to a top heavyweight. His feet are square on, there's no real turn of the hip into it.

    No idea where the hook that Louis hit Sharkey with landed but that's not being debated here.
     
  5. Rainer

    Rainer Active Member Full Member

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    This is just plain ridiculous.
    "Sharkey ,I fought him to the body,because he didn't like to get hit to the body.I was fighting him in close.He turned to the referee and said "he's hitting me low" . ",At about that time I let a punch go a left hook,hit him on the chin and knocked him out.What the hell.You're in there to win.He had no business saying nothing to the referee.I was right.he said I hit him when he wasn't looking.Well,what the hell why ain't you looking? The fights still on,you should be looking,not at the referee,looking at me.He made the mistake himself I didn't."
    Jack Dempsey from a taped interview in his restaurant in February 1970.

    "I'd been getting punches below,and then the last one hurt so much I just went to tell the referee."Tell him to keep them up,"and then I got it and that was that..I turned away to say to the referee"tell him to keep the punches up" he hit me with a left hook,I got knocked out".
    Jack Sharkey from a taped interview at his home in June 1971.
    "Sharkey took the count of ten after going down from a vicious left hook to the jaw. The Boston sailor had claimed a foul blow to the mid-section just before the climax, but the referee, Jack O’Sullivan, refused to allow it and counted him out."Box Rec

    Ever heard the expression," hoist with your own petard?"
    Remember posting this you asinine moron?
    LEARN SOMETHING ABOUT THE SPORT YOU ARE POSTING ABOUT!!!!!

    " You display your ignorance STUDY UP!"lol
     
    Last edited: Jul 2, 2019
  6. Gazelle Punch

    Gazelle Punch Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Rocky beat three p4p ATGs and never lost. Holyfield has a lot of losses on his record to sub par fighters. And it’s not that Frazier doesn’t get love I’d defend him if he was insulted the way Marciano is...but he rarely is. Marciano is either a top ten ATG to those with a brain or he’s cannon fodder and overrated to those without eyes and an agenda. Holyfield is a great HW champ top 25 imo but he’s no Marciano. Holyfield could compete w anyone but that doesn’t mean he’s winning against the top ten to 15 most of the time. And may I add Holyfield got dominated by a blown up middle weight and beat by two blown up LHWs
     
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  7. Rainer

    Rainer Active Member Full Member

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    Neither Charles nor Moore were p4p ATGs at heavyweight.
    Holyfield fought into his 40's, how many losses does he have at the age Rocky retired?
    May I add Rocky was floored by two men whose combined age was 77! Further more Holyfield was fighting superheavyweights, not ex light heavies who were past prime. Emmanuel Steward did not rank Marciano in his AT top ten,so I guess he didnt have a brain?
     
  8. Fergy

    Fergy Walking Dead Full Member

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    Well put !
     
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  9. HOUDINI

    HOUDINI Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Again the referee stated that none of the three punches preceding the KO blow were low. Period.

    The referee stated neither corner or the fighters complained about low blows during the fight. Period.

    The DOCTOR assigned to the fight examined Sharkey in his dressing room. No sign of a low blow was found.

    Leading up to the fight Dempsey’s trainers made a big deal about the potential of Sharkey claiming foul. Jack had a reputation for doing just that.

    The ref also stated that Sharkey wore his trunks high making body blows appear lower than they actually were.

    Sharkey stated “I never knew anyone could hit that hard” regarding Dempsey’s power. He did not say this because the ko blow was a inconsequential punch. Dempsey was well known for six inch blows that carried immense power.

    Study up lazy people. I find it very interesting spending time delving deep into historic bouts. This is one I’ve spent countless hours investigating.
     
  10. HOUDINI

    HOUDINI Boxing Addict Full Member

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    I challenge you to look at the tape of the bout and show everyone when Sharkey complained of the low blow. The KO punch came so quickly Sharkey did not have time to say anything and certainly the ref had no time to respond.

    A few seconds before those three body blows there was a right hand by Dempsey that slid off Sharkey arm and hit him on his thigh. The ref mentioned this blow later as being unintentional and doing no harm. Many confuse the refs statements concerning THIS BLOW and the three blows just preceding the KO blow. The ref absolutely and adamantly stated those three punches fired in rapid succession were not low. Sharkey could not take it to the body and Dempsey was killing him with body blows.
     
  11. 70sFan865

    70sFan865 Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Two, one of them against former LHW who was clearly worse than Moore and Charles.
     
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  12. Rainer

    Rainer Active Member Full Member

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    We have first hand taped testimony from both Sharkey and Dempsey stating unequivocally that Sharkey turned his head and spoke to the referee and you want to deny this? You clown!
     
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  13. Rainer

    Rainer Active Member Full Member

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    First of all you said the Referee examined him in the dressing room after the fight,now you say it was the ring doctor.Do you actually have a clue WTF you're talking about?
    Earlier post
    "NEITHER corner or fighter complained of low blows anytime during the fight.

    Sharkey was examined by the ref after the fight and no evidence of a low blow was found."

    More recent post by you.
    "The DOCTOR assigned to the fight examined Sharkey in his dressing room. No sign of a low blow was found."

    Box Rec.
    One punch bounced off a Sharkey elbow and landed against a hip. Another seemed—the newsreels don't show this clearly—to land below the high belt line. Sharkey turned to the referee, Jack O'Sullivan, and dropped his hands. He started to complain, "He hit me low and—" He did not finish the sentence. No prudent man facing Jack Dempsey in a prize ring dropped his guard. Ever.
    "In the seventh round Dempsey continued to throw punches at Sharkey's belt line,with some landing above and some below.After one exchange,early in the round,Sharkey complained to referee Jack O'Sullivan."Wqatch your punches jack," O 'Sullivan warned ,then,.realising they were both called Jack ,he added I mean you Dempsey"Randy Roberts ,"The Manassa Mauler."
    "Boxing Journalists James Dawson,Grantland Rice,W O McGeehan,Bill Corum,,DamonRunyon,and Benny Leonard all said they saw the low blows.
    Westbrook Pegler,JimCorbett,Paul Gallico,Tommy Loughran and gGne Tunney maintained there were no foul punches thrown by Dempsey"
    Roberts page246
    The film of the fight is no help in determining where the punches landed.Based on the camera angle it appears that the punches were headed towarda the foul area,but it is impossible to see exactly where the blows actually landed.There is no doubt however about what happened next.Sharkey grabbed his groin and started to launch a verbal protest against Dempsey's punch/As his eyes turned towards the direction of the referee and his mouth opened Dempsey hit Sharkey with a perfectly timed left hook." Roberts page 247



      • Harvey Woodruff of the Chicago Tribune considered Dempsey "finished" in the fourth and a "gory sight."




      • Dempsey landed a series of low blows in round seven. Sharkey turned to the referee to protest, and Dempsey knocked him out with a left hook to the chin. "I hit him with one of the last good punches of my life," Dempsey said later. "It was everything I could throw. His chin was sticking out there, unprotected. I couldn’t miss."
    "The final right hand Dempsey landed to the body hurt Sharkey a lot. That’s when Sailor Jack made the fatal mistake of dropping his hands and turning to the referee to complain he had been hit low. The second Dempsey saw that opening he fired off a left hook to the face that floored Sharkey. Referee O’Sullivan counted the Gob out."


    Fella we could cut you some slack about not knowing WTF went on, but you're such an arrogant, insufferable know all, you deserve all the derision and mockery you get!
     
    Last edited: Jul 2, 2019
  14. HOUDINI

    HOUDINI Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Watch the tape of the fight and let everyone know where Sharkey had time to say anything and when the ref had time to respond.

    You won’t because the tape of the fight clearly shows there was no time between the final body blow and the left hook that ended the fight for any conversation no matter how short to be had. PERIOD.

    The ref stated those three body blows were not low. PERIOD.

    The ref stated neither fighter nor their corners complained of low blows during the fight. PERIOD.

    If you were not a lazy ass you could do some basic research that would inform you that the doctor assigned to the bout examined Sharkey after in his dressing room. No evidence of a low blow was found. PERIOD.

    Finally going into the fight Dempsey’s corner was on record expressing their concern that Sharkey would claim a foul as HE HAD A REPUTATION IN DOING SO IN PRIOR BOUTS.

    START DOING SOME RESEARCH. A lazy boxing fan is no fun it debate! However in actuality there is little to debate here. There is no evidence that shows those three body blows were low. The ref is the decision maker in any bout and he was feet away from both fighters. His statement was that those three body blows were not low.
     
  15. Gazelle Punch

    Gazelle Punch Boxing Addict Full Member

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    I guess not. And both were amazing HWs and top 25 p4p ATGs. Holyfield was a warrior but most realistic experts don’t have him anywhere near top ten. If you go by age of opponents Rocky’s is probably lower then Holyfield’s. Two of his best wins were against two forty plus year olds