Would Bowe 1992 Be too Much For Marciano ?

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by Fergy, Jun 28, 2019.

  1. Rainer

    Rainer Active Member Full Member

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    You're calling both Sharkey and Dempsey liars.Sharkey complained to the referee twice .The referee warned Dempsey earlier in the fight to keep his punches up . I've given a list of ringside observers who stated the punches were low,an,d to be even handed a lits of those who saw no illegal blows.FYI the referee is not always in the best position to see all the punches, that's why the ref in the Sharkey Schmeling 1 st fight[JimCrowley ,]went around the ring appealing for the opinion of ringsiders! You'd know this if you did some research ,but you're too busy patting yourself on the back for imaginary information you think you possess .
    Research? I've provided two verified first hand accounts from the participants, a next day report from a top boxing writer, Box Recs links,and Randy Roberts Dempsey's biographers quotes.WTF have you produced? Jack **** .Just your self opinionated, pompous ,preening unsubstantiated opinion.


    I'm going to make you a special project of mine from now on.
     
    Last edited: Jul 2, 2019
  2. reznick

    reznick In the 7.2% Full Member

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    So Sharkey acted out the jump off the canvas? That's ridiculous.
    Do you have any examples in the last 100 years of the sport of something similar happening?
    I can definitely provide examples of boxers being lifted off the ground due to the reaction of a hard punch.

    And no, just because a hook came from the left, it doesn't mean the boxer receiving it will be forced to the right.
    That's not how the physics of taking a thunderous punch always plays out.

    The Louis punch on Sharkey isn't being debated but provides context to the debate at hand here.
    But given your habit of waving away any contradictory context to your stance, your response comes to no surprise.
     
  3. HOUDINI

    HOUDINI Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Nope.

    The ref stated that neither fighter and neither corner complained of low blows during the fight. Was he lying?

    He did say that both fighters were hitting low but nothing flagrant and nothing intentional.

    Of course with any activity where thousands are watching some will believe they saw one thing when in fact it was another. Human nature. Benny Leonard was adamant Sharkey was hit very low but again if you do the work Leonard was writing a column for major newspapers leading up to the fight culminating in his prediction the day of/day prior. He predicted Sharkey would easily win giving Dempsey virtually no chance so OF COURSE he saw low blows!

    The ref however stated he saw all three blows and described them as right uppercuts to the body. (Look at the tape that’s what they were) He further stated that none of those three blows were low.

    The idea that Dempsey absolutely hit Sharkey low is complete BS and a distortion of the evidence at that time. You could say the punches were borderline and I’d not disagree with you. Those three blows were not in any way close to Sharkeys groin. The ref described them as three right uppercuts to the pit of Sharkeys stomach.
     
  4. mrkoolkevin

    mrkoolkevin Never wrestle with pigs or argue with fools Full Member

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    The idea that this was some kind of all-time great punch thrown with incredible, pulverizing force is a fairy tale for men who still believe in superheroes.

    This content is protected
     
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  5. HOUDINI

    HOUDINI Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Kevin is list again. Dempsey knocked out with one left hook the leading prime hwt contender. It was a devastating blow.

    Sharkey states later Dempsey hit harder than Joe Louis adding “I never thought anyone could hit that hard” and “When Dempsey hit you to the body it felt as if his fist came out your back”.
     
  6. Rainer

    Rainer Active Member Full Member

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    Six famous boxing experts saw the fight from ringside they all say they saw the low punches. You are full of it!
     
  7. HOUDINI

    HOUDINI Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Rain is too lazy to do the work himself do he throws out meaningless info.

    Watch the fight and see for yourself. Read at least the NY papers leading up to the fight and the weeks afterwards. I have.

    Biggest concern from Dempsey’s corner leading into the fight was Sharkey claiming foul AS HE HAD DONE IN PREVIOUS BOUTS. What occurred here as such was no great surprise. Sharkey could not take Dempsey’s body assault and as he did in the past claimed a foul.

    You can see during the fight with Sharkey bending WAY over at the waist in an attempt to distance himself from Dempsey’s body blows.

    Suggest you get off your butt and investigate bouts you want to comment about. I mean REALLY do the work. It takes time but in the end you get the full picture. Not snippets here and there that allow you to form a false conclusion. A true bottom line.
     
  8. mrkoolkevin

    mrkoolkevin Never wrestle with pigs or argue with fools Full Member

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    Don't you ever get tired of regurgitating the same quotes?

     
  9. Rainer

    Rainer Active Member Full Member

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    Ive done the work I produced my evidence ,you produced NOTHING . I suggest you read the statements form Benny Leonard,Grantland Rice,BillCorum,W O McGeehan.All said they saw the blows as low! I've been on many Boxing Forums ,but I've yet to encounter a more insufferable ,smug ,self satisfied ,clown than you.
     
    Last edited: Jul 2, 2019
  10. Eddie Ezzard

    Eddie Ezzard Well-Known Member Full Member

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    W
    What do you expect Sharkey to say? 'Dempsey was a powder puff puncher.'? He'd just flung himself to the canvas for the count. He had to big up Dempsey's punch or be accused of quitting or throwing the fight.

    Try and read between the lines just a little bit.

    Kevin has posted the streamable video that shows the punch. It doesn't look devastating to me and Sharkey's reaction seems bizarre, falling forward and falling on his arms. I wouldn't expect someone who had been hit hard enough to have been lifted off the floor to be in a position - a split second later - to be breaking their fall.

    I don't doubt Dempsey could really hit. There are so many testaments to his power I'd be silly to dispute it. But I see nothing in Dempsey's stance and balance or in anything he does while throwing this punch such as turn his hip, bend his knee, snap his elbow or even land on the point of the chin, that I would expect to see from a devastating punch. I've got no agenda. I'm just saying it as I see it.
     
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  11. Eddie Ezzard

    Eddie Ezzard Well-Known Member Full Member

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    Now, now. Don't get tetchy and personal. You have a habit of doing that when someone takes an opposing view to yours. I was talking about the legitimacy of this punch based on the film of it. The only context I need to see is this punch.

    I'll need you to enlighten me about the physics of taking a thunderous punch. I am no expert on physics. Nor taking thunderous punches. But I am still firmly of the opinion that an object being hit by something travels in much the same direction as what hits it. Not the complete opposite direction, as was the case here.

    And if you read my response to Perry 'No Reply' Houdini above, you'll see why I am also of the opinion that this was not 'a thunderous punch'.
     
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  12. Rainer

    Rainer Active Member Full Member

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    Holyfield lost 10 fights ,7 of these were when he was37,38,39,41,42,44,45. Want to speculate how Rocky would be doing against those men at that age?
    The Ring magazines last ATG top 20 had Holyfield and joint no 11 with Lennox Lewis.
     
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  13. Rainer

    Rainer Active Member Full Member

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    Dempsey described it as one of the last great punches he threw.
     
  14. HOUDINI

    HOUDINI Boxing Addict Full Member

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    You have done no work! It obvious from your responses. I’ve already told you B Leonard’s observations are tainted as he picked Sharkey to win easily. Instead his pick was koed. If you watch the bout there is no evidence those three blows were low! NONE. Also in a crowd of a hundred thousand or more one has to expect some will see something that is against reality especially with no instant replays!

    Ref stated those three blows were not low and he described these blows perfectly. Three right uppercuts...and that’s what they were.

    Fight doctor found no evidence of any low blows.

    Dempsey’s corner leading up to the fight were concerned about only ONE THING. Sharkey claiming foul as he tried doing so in previous bouts!

    STUDY UP !
     
  15. ironchamp

    ironchamp Boxing Addict Full Member

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    1) David Haye conceded 99 pounds against WBA Champion Nikolai Valuev in 2009. He beat Valuev anyway.

    2) Jack Sharkey conceded 59 pounds against Primo Carnera in thier first meeting in 1931. He beat Carnera anyway.

    3) Jack Dempsey conceded 58 pounds against Champion Jess Williard in 1919. He beat Williard anyway.

    4) Chris Byrd conceded 56 pounds in his IBF title defense against Jameel McCline in 2004. He beat McCline anyway.

    5) Joe Louis conceded 52 pounds in his title defense against Abe Simon in 1941. He beat Simon anyway.

    6) Sultan Ibragimov conceded 52 pounds against WBO Champion Shannon Briggs in 2007. He beat Briggs anyway.

    7) Joe Frazier conceded 39 pounds against Buster Mathis in 1968. He beat Mathis anyway.

    8) Roy Jones Jr conceded 33 pounds against WBA Champion John Ruiz in 2003. He beat Ruiz anyway.

    9) Tomasz Adamek conceded 33 pounds against Cris Arreola in 2010. He beat Arreola anyway.

    10) Micheal Spinks conceded 30 pounds against Gerry Cooney in his title defense back in 1987. He beat Cooney anyway.

    Say what you want about Marciano but he's universally credited as being a big puncher and Bowe's penchant for fighting inside give Marciano a pretty decent chance. Remember that Bowe never really took on big punchers so its difficult to gauge whether or not he'd fare well against someone with the type of power that Marciano.

    All things considered I'd favor Bowe still, but Marciano is by no means out of his depth even if he falls short.

    When Rocky was champion mandatory's didn't price themselves out like Lewis did against Bowe. Keep in mind Lewis rejected a career high $11 million dollar guarantee; he would later take $10 million against Holyfield in 1999 (6 six years later).
     
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