Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by Fergy, Jun 28, 2019.
You didn't even mentioned Langford and Fitzsimmons victims.
Are we going to forget Tyson's KO over Frans Botha?
Botha was not a top rated hwt. Really never was.
Benny Leonard was just one ringside expert who stated the punches were low,others included Bill Corum,Damon Runyon, Grantland Rice,James P Dawson ,and W O McGeehan all of who watched more fights and knew more about boxing than you will ever learn .Is their testimony tainted too?
The referee cautioned Dempsey to keep his punches up in an earlier round, its documented in Randy Roberts excellent biography of Dempsey.The question is not if the blows were low ,[the film which I first saw in the late 60''s is inconclusive on this,] but 1. whether the referee warned Dempsey about hitting low ,and2. whether Sharkey complained to the referee.
1.Roberts is clear on the first and 2. Both Sharkey and Dempsey confirm that Sharkey complained to the referee.It can't be any more plainer than that even to some one as obtuse as you!
Sorry if this makes you seem as ignorant as a box of rocks but you shouldn't compulsively make unsupported statements that can be disproved by taped, verified,dated interviews from the two boxers who this is actually about!
What Leo P Flynn was concerned about prior to the fight is irrelevant and immaterial! We are discussing the fight itself and whether the referee warned Dempsey for going low HE DID!
And if Sharkey complained to the referee about low punches HE DID!
All your ridiculous obfuscsations will not alter these two unalterable proven FACTS.If your ego can't handle being proven wrong well TOUGH ****!
And guess what ? You had better prepare yourself for getting used to it!
The referee stated neither fighter nor their corner complained about low blows during the fight. The only source that could provide this information honestly was the referee.
The referee stated BOTH men were throwing low blows but nothing purposeful nor flagrant. Thus the ref warning either fighter for low blows is no surprise.
Most importantly Dempsey’s corner was concerned about only one thing going into the bout and that was Sharkey claiming foul. SHARKEY HAD A REPUTATION FOR DOING SO DURING PRIOR BOUTS.
The bout is readily available on YouTube. Take a look. No need to let decades go by before watching any bout nowadays.
"I've owned this fight for 50 years!
Regarding the underlined.This is what you said Monday
The ref saw no low blows. In fact he stated that the three blows prior to the KO were NOT LOW.
That directly contradicts your statement of today ago.!
" The latter pounded Sharkey's body savagely and in the 7th round landed a stomach punch which seemed to some specators to be a trifle low.Sharkey imprudently turned his head and complained to thereferee and in the same instantDempsey smashed hook to the jaw which sent the ex Gob down and out. Opinions were about evenly divided among the spectators as to whether Sharkey had actually been fouled."
Nat Fleischer A History Of Boxing.
Famously, in round seven Dempsey clipped Sharkey low with a series of punches. When Sharkey turned to referee Jack O’Sullivan to complain, Dempsey reached Sharkey’s chin with a short left hook, his best punch, and just like that Sharkey was done for and could only shake his head when the count of ten was reached. Buckley unsuccessfully attempted to get the outcome overturned, but immediately after the fight reporters pressed Sharkey for a response to claims that he was continuously fouled. “Aw, shut up,” he told them. “It’s all in the game.”
"Dempsey landed a series of low blows in round seven. Sharkey turned to the referee to protest, and Dempsey knocked him out with a left hook to the chin. “I hit him with one of the last good punches of my life,” Dempsey said later. “It was everything I could throw. His chin was sticking out there, unprotected. I couldn’t miss.”
"Between the fifth and sixth rounds, Dempsey told manager Leo Flynn that Sharkey was getting tired. Dempsey, who had cuts around both eyes and was likewise bleeding from nose and mouth, was still looking for ways to win. Perhaps that is the difference between Dempsey and another recent former champion who was taking a beating against a younger foe and opted to quit between the fifth and sixth rounds.
Dempsey would never have been Dempsey if there was an ounce of quit in him. In the ring, he was a warrior with a killer’s instinct. In the sixth round, Dempsey’s body was aching and his face was bleeding, but he stepped up the attack nonetheless. Sharkey began to complain to referee O’Sullivan when some of the blows strayed low. O’Sullivan warned Dempsey to keep them up.
In the seventh, Dempsey was again pressing the action and Sharkey didn’t appear to have the same fire as in the early rounds. Partway through, Sharkey complained about low blows and O’Sullivan warned Dempsey again. A short time later, Dempsey threw a right that landed low, striking Sharkey on the left leg. Dempsey then followed with a series of hooks to the body. Some spectators who had a clear view said the hooks were also low; some said they weren’t. In any case, Sharkey turned again to complain to the ref. And then everything went black.
Dempsey would later say that the punch he knocked out Sharkey with was the best he landed late in his career. It was left hook that landed flush on the chin, causing Sharkey to go down hard. O’Sullivan paused for a second, then warned the fallen fighter to get to his feet because he was starting the count. It didn’t matter. Sharkey barely moved as the fatal 10 was tolled over him." Boxing Scene.
Now I've proved my case conclusively, and without a shred of doubt.
I don't expect you to be man enough to admit it , no matter I'm content that I made a C C out of you. Supply your own abbreviation.
There is no contradiction. The three blows prior to the KO blow were not low. The referee was very clear BOTH men were hitting low but nothing flagrant or intentional.
Ref was very clear neither corner or fighter complained about any low blows during the fight.
More importantly many newspapers had headlines a few days after the fight as the film was shown by Rickard to reporters “FILM OF BOUT SHOWS BODY BLOWS WERE LEGAL”
Dempsey’s corners only concern prior to the fight was Sharkey claiming foul since he was known to do so in prior bouts.
Moving the goals posts. Tyson was behind in a fight and he scored a 1 punch KO over Botha who was a former IBF Champion was a TOP 10 Contender at the time they fought.
By the way it is common knowledge that Dempsey hit Sharkey with a low blow.
Not moving goal posts at all. Botha was not a top ranked fighter and owning a paper title in an era of oh so many paper titles means nothing.
Watch the Dempsey Sharkey fight and show everyone the low blows prior to the KO blow. They are not there. The ref said they were not there back in 1927. In addition Sharkey was known to claim foul. He did so numerous times prior to fighting Dempsey. This was Dempsey’s corners only worry going into the fight. Oh another thing many newspapers had headlines after the bout as follows “Film of fight shows body blows were legal”.
Yes, Bowe would be too much for Marciano. Bowe was bigger and better.
There isn't anything new you're saying here so rather than go back and forth let me pivot here; The whole argument about Dempsey Sharkey on this thread was predicated on Dempsey having a plan B and winning a fight he was losing as a testament to his will.
What about the Tunney fight? Fight 2 draws parallels to the Douglas fight in that Dempsey was clearly behind on the fight and manages to score a knockdown that could have ended the fight but Tunney still had more in him and got up, scored a knockdown of his own later enroute to winning the fight.
Does this mean Dempsey's lack of will and heart is the reason why he lost against Tunney?
Iron...your post shows the entire point is way over your head.
Won’t waste much time with you just will quickly try to show you a pathway to understand this very important topic
Ali did not find a plan B, way to win against Holmes did he? Nor Norton fight one, nor Spinks fight one, nor Frazier fight one. Does not matter. What does matter is against the No 1 determined contender, Frazier in Manila, he came back when it looked like he was totally spent and being overwhelmed to win. Hat does matter is in a fight with Foreman whom few thought he would even survive found a way to win. Same scenario with Liston fight one. Get it now? It’s an important idea when ranking fighters all time.
Huh? Can you show me the part of my post where I got personal?
Lol you good broski? I think this whole Perry thing you're on about got you projecting.
What? You realize that if what you're saying were correct, a boxer would never fall forward after getting knocked down/out by a punch?
It's not even clear that he doesn't go backwards, in fact it kind of looks like he is despite his upper body falling forward.
Yeah but sometimes they do.
This content is protected
Louis not only breaks the fall, he stops himself from falling after being lifted upwards by a left hook.
"Glass chinned Louis," by the way, but thats a myth to bust for another day.
Then mind explaining this big knockout punch by Mike Tyson?
This content is protected
He does neither of those things any more than Dempsey did in the Sharkey clip.
Are we now to supposed to go to drastic lengths and claim that something was "fishy" here?
That perhaps Berbick was acting? That he fell on his own?
Gifted power punchers don't need to excessively wind up to throw serious power.
That should be obvious to boxing enthusiasts.
The KO punch by Dempsey was a big hard punch.
You can measure the speed of his skin when it ripples throughout his head, and run it through a formula if you'd like. Or just have the common sense that people have had for decades, and will continue to have, that the hook was a big punch. It's obvious, and this is a weird thing to debate.
Rez...amazing the low boxing mentality on these boards. Simply unbelievable.